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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

People with a cervix

342 replies

Globules · 28/02/2025 18:20

This has really annoyed me.

Official documentation from the NHS, aka the national medical professionals, should know that it's ONLY women who have a cervix.

What is this non sentence of all women and people with a cervix?

People with a cervix
OP posts:
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6
AnSolas · 28/02/2025 21:25

Catza · 28/02/2025 20:56

It's a practice of disguising a female child as a son which affords them the freedom to play outside without chaperone, attend school etc. In most cases it ends with puberty but not always. There is an ethnographic researcher who wrote a beautiful book about the practice which included extensive records of women living as "uncles". Unfortunately, I can't quite recall the name of the book or the author right now.

The girl is forced to pretend to be male?

Women individually have always had to pretend to be male if they had no other choice. That is different from being recognised as "non-women women" as social group.

Is she allowed to marry or not as she chooses?
Live freely without her male relatives control?
Enforce any legal rights?

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 28/02/2025 21:28

INeedAPensieve · 28/02/2025 20:58

Why has this thread been moved? It was in AIBU. I was following it with interest. It's a valid one to be asked of all of mumsnet. Annoying it gets pushed to the "naughty corner".

Lots of politics threads aren't moved from AIBU or Chat to Politics, yet anything sex realist is corralled into FWR. A clear double standard here.

NotBadConsidering · 28/02/2025 21:30

AubernFable · 28/02/2025 20:39

Some years back, being gay was seen as some kind of outlandish ideology, making it acceptable to ignore or disrespect them and their needs. Now, it’s normal, and homophobes are rightfully condemned. The same is now happening for trans people- it isn’t some fad that’s going to go away.

Being gay is grounded in reality. Claiming to be the opposite sex isn’t. It’s an ideological belief. HTH.

And it’s a belief system that definitely has a fad element. We will look back on health information like this in 20 years and cringe. Well, the people who think it’s a good idea now will, anyway. I won’t.

AubernFable · 28/02/2025 21:32

WillIEverBeOk · 28/02/2025 21:14

The irony is 'gender critical' simply means feminism. And feminism isn't 'ignorant'. And then opposite of gender critical, is the ignorant Trans Ideology which is simply misogyny and a Mens Rights movement in a different dress.

As it is, the trans ideology is dying and in it's death throes, we are winning the war. If you truly think this is remotely like being gay and people growing up with gay people, you are truly delusional. Yes, there have always been people who claim to be 'born in the wrong body', but most of u recognise it as the mental illness it is. People 'thrive' with a mental illness, it still doesn't validate it. And the more and more society is re-ordered and women lose our rights, the more society pushes back. You are living in an echo chamber if you cannot see that Trans Ideology is losing the war, and within 10 to 20 years, we will look back at this dangerous period of time for women and children and wonder wtf we were doing.

I am a feminist, a pretty loud one at that, and I strongly disagree that trans people, especially trans women, are a threat to feminism. The trans women I know are feminists and care about women’s rights, are active in the LGBT community and above all just regular people with jobs and families. You seem so far removed from reality talking about a war.

Honest question, do you know many trans people or is this all based on what you read online?

AnSolas · 28/02/2025 21:35

AubernFable · 28/02/2025 21:07

I don’t see that being the case, but I guess it depends on what circles you’re in- it’s possible for sites like this to become an echo chamber.

I grew up with two young trans people who are now in their 30s and thriving. A relative of my DH is trans and in her 60s (transitioned at 20), and there are young trans men in my family and trans women in my friendship group. They don’t think it’s a strange phase, and neither do we or our friends and family—it’s all pretty normal for us.

Being “gender critical,” as we’re now calling it, isn’t new; it’s just the same repackaged ignorance seen time and time again in times of progression, IMO. I believe it will die back considerably in the same way it did with homophobia as more people grow up with trans people in their lives.

Yes ignorance🫢

The homophobia of ladydick and mangina.
The progression of the Scottish politicians agreeing that males in female changing rooms may not be the best idea.

Nameychangington · 28/02/2025 21:38

AubernFable · 28/02/2025 21:32

I am a feminist, a pretty loud one at that, and I strongly disagree that trans people, especially trans women, are a threat to feminism. The trans women I know are feminists and care about women’s rights, are active in the LGBT community and above all just regular people with jobs and families. You seem so far removed from reality talking about a war.

Honest question, do you know many trans people or is this all based on what you read online?

Transwomen are not feminist. Being a man and believing that your clothes or the ideas in your head make you a woman if you decide so, is not feminist.

Gender ideology is extremely sexist, as well as homophobic.

And yes, I know actual people who identify as trans.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 28/02/2025 21:38

AubernFable · 28/02/2025 21:32

I am a feminist, a pretty loud one at that, and I strongly disagree that trans people, especially trans women, are a threat to feminism. The trans women I know are feminists and care about women’s rights, are active in the LGBT community and above all just regular people with jobs and families. You seem so far removed from reality talking about a war.

Honest question, do you know many trans people or is this all based on what you read online?

It doesnt matter if one has met one trans woman or a million trans women. You cant cosplay at feminism. You cant do that if you’re biologically male. They will never know what it’s like to be female.

The fact you can’t see how being able to opt into sex goes against everything that is feminism says it all.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 28/02/2025 21:39

AubernFable · 28/02/2025 21:32

I am a feminist, a pretty loud one at that, and I strongly disagree that trans people, especially trans women, are a threat to feminism. The trans women I know are feminists and care about women’s rights, are active in the LGBT community and above all just regular people with jobs and families. You seem so far removed from reality talking about a war.

Honest question, do you know many trans people or is this all based on what you read online?

Some TW are a proven threat to women and we don't always know which ones. Hence the, completely uncontroversial until about twenty years ago, routine sex segregation of toilets, changing rooms, dormitories, and prisons.

AnSolas · 28/02/2025 21:39

AubernFable · 28/02/2025 21:32

I am a feminist, a pretty loud one at that, and I strongly disagree that trans people, especially trans women, are a threat to feminism. The trans women I know are feminists and care about women’s rights, are active in the LGBT community and above all just regular people with jobs and families. You seem so far removed from reality talking about a war.

Honest question, do you know many trans people or is this all based on what you read online?

Male feminists who use female spaces as if they have a right to be there?

Or male feminists who recognise the importance of sex and single sex spaces?

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 28/02/2025 21:44

Oldermum84 · 28/02/2025 19:36

I have no idea why people get annoyed by things like this. It's inclusive language. It's a good thing. And it's not just about included trans men it includes those who identify as non binary etc.

It’s actually really unhelpful for women whose first language isn’t English, there is data to support this.

Only women have a cervix, trans ideology should play absolutely no part in a medical setting.

Catza · 28/02/2025 21:46

AnSolas · 28/02/2025 21:25

The girl is forced to pretend to be male?

Women individually have always had to pretend to be male if they had no other choice. That is different from being recognised as "non-women women" as social group.

Is she allowed to marry or not as she chooses?
Live freely without her male relatives control?
Enforce any legal rights?

No, they are not forced. And again, I was replying to a very specific comment made by a previous poster and not attempting to start a discussion on a wider Afghan culture, politics or ideology. The poster said the if women had a choice, there would be very few of them in Afghanistan. I mentioned that women of Afghanistan had this choice for centuries. Alas, they have many other choices removed from them but that's an entirely different topic.
For any other bacha posh- specific questions I suggest Google as a next step as there are people who are far more knowledgeable than me who wrote books and academic articles on the subject.

OakleyAnnie · 28/02/2025 21:47

AubernFable · 28/02/2025 19:19

Absolutely this, people on mumsnet aren’t too kind when it comes to this topic unfortunately.

I am a person with a cervix and it doesn’t make me feel any less of a woman to be referred to as such but the inclusive language could encourage a trans man to get checked and save his life. Sounds like a win to me.

‘Aren't too kind’ - weaponised misunderstanding of the issues women are raising here.

eatfigs · 28/02/2025 21:52

AubernFable · 28/02/2025 21:32

I am a feminist, a pretty loud one at that, and I strongly disagree that trans people, especially trans women, are a threat to feminism. The trans women I know are feminists and care about women’s rights, are active in the LGBT community and above all just regular people with jobs and families. You seem so far removed from reality talking about a war.

Honest question, do you know many trans people or is this all based on what you read online?

That's an awfully sexist perspective.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 28/02/2025 21:53

Catza · 28/02/2025 21:46

No, they are not forced. And again, I was replying to a very specific comment made by a previous poster and not attempting to start a discussion on a wider Afghan culture, politics or ideology. The poster said the if women had a choice, there would be very few of them in Afghanistan. I mentioned that women of Afghanistan had this choice for centuries. Alas, they have many other choices removed from them but that's an entirely different topic.
For any other bacha posh- specific questions I suggest Google as a next step as there are people who are far more knowledgeable than me who wrote books and academic articles on the subject.

They are forced: their fathers decide.

WillIEverBeOk · 28/02/2025 21:54

AubernFable · 28/02/2025 21:32

I am a feminist, a pretty loud one at that, and I strongly disagree that trans people, especially trans women, are a threat to feminism. The trans women I know are feminists and care about women’s rights, are active in the LGBT community and above all just regular people with jobs and families. You seem so far removed from reality talking about a war.

Honest question, do you know many trans people or is this all based on what you read online?

Any group of people who get women called 'menstruators', 'bleeders' or 'uterus havers' are not feminist.

Any group of people who remove womens sex-based rights to female only intimate safe single sex spaces and opens the door for intact males to enter, are not feminist.

Any group of people who enable post-pubertal males with all their insurmountable advantage to steal sports college scholarships, medals and rankings off girls, are not feminist.

Trans Ideology is DEEPLY dangerous to actual women and girls and erases all our sex-based rights.

It's clear that you haven't examined this issue thoroughly and have been privileged enough not to be touched by this dangerous Ideology and known girls and women who have lost their spaces and sporting scholarships.

Honest question; do you really think asking us if we know of any males in a dress who pose as women is some sort of a 'gotcha', as if we, including rape survivors like myself, will suddenly be 'oh it's ok, you males can enter our change rooms'? Really? We ALL know males. That doesn't mean we want them in our spaces or taking our awards. Meeting a male - whether in a suit or tie or in a dress - won't change that. Besides, most of us here are 'terfs' because we have first hand experience of these narcissistic transwomen. As they say, 'go meet a tranwoman, they said. I did. I am now terf'.

OakleyAnnie · 28/02/2025 21:56

PerkyTitan · 28/02/2025 20:28

I'm good honey, are you 😂 ❤️

Why have your posts been deleted? What have been writing now?

WillIEverBeOk · 28/02/2025 21:56

AnSolas · 28/02/2025 21:35

Yes ignorance🫢

The homophobia of ladydick and mangina.
The progression of the Scottish politicians agreeing that males in female changing rooms may not be the best idea.

Yes it's the same misogyny and homophobia.

People with a cervix
NImumconfused · 28/02/2025 21:57

Moier · 28/02/2025 19:43

What annoys me more is .. that the start age is 25.. it should start as soon as you become sexual active.
So many young women getting cervical cancer under 25 years of age.

The starting age was originally raised to 25 when the primary method of screening was looking at cells under a microscope, because abnormal cells are so common in the under 25s and the vast majority of them resolve themselves, so it was leading to over treatment. I would think now that they've moved over to primary HPV testing, there's a good argument for lowering it again.

WillIEverBeOk · 28/02/2025 21:59

OakleyAnnie · 28/02/2025 21:47

‘Aren't too kind’ - weaponised misunderstanding of the issues women are raising here.

Yes, we women need to remember our socialisation to 'Be Kind' to the males. Especially the males in dresses. 🙄

SophiePie · 28/02/2025 22:02

MugsyBalonz · 28/02/2025 19:13

The most cursory of googling proves you wrong.

A direct quote from the NHS webpage:

"The prostate is a small gland found only in men and trans women."

I said the NHS page on prostate cancer

www.nhs.uk/conditions/prostate-cancer/

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 28/02/2025 22:03

AubernFable · 28/02/2025 21:07

I don’t see that being the case, but I guess it depends on what circles you’re in- it’s possible for sites like this to become an echo chamber.

I grew up with two young trans people who are now in their 30s and thriving. A relative of my DH is trans and in her 60s (transitioned at 20), and there are young trans men in my family and trans women in my friendship group. They don’t think it’s a strange phase, and neither do we or our friends and family—it’s all pretty normal for us.

Being “gender critical,” as we’re now calling it, isn’t new; it’s just the same repackaged ignorance seen time and time again in times of progression, IMO. I believe it will die back considerably in the same way it did with homophobia as more people grow up with trans people in their lives.

The irony of you saying that being gender critical is out of ignorance! It’s not GC women who don’t understand biology, it’s not GC women who support an ideology that encourages, often in secret, young, neurodivergent girls to have their healthy breasts removed, it’s not GC women who cheerlead children as young as 4 being led towards a medical pathway that we now know has life changing and irreversible consequences. Give your head a wobble and just think about what it is you actually support, at best disturbed young people, often victims of abuse, who need therapy not surgery, and at best, grown men with AGP. And before you pontificate any further and tell me I’m angry, who on earth wouldn’t be at the absolute absurdity of it all.

NImumconfused · 28/02/2025 22:04

Quercus5 · 28/02/2025 19:48

In Edinburgh screening is for people with a cervix. No mention of women.

The really outrageous thing about that is the grammar!! Anyone with a cervix are offered???!

OakleyAnnie · 28/02/2025 22:05

AubernFable · 28/02/2025 21:32

I am a feminist, a pretty loud one at that, and I strongly disagree that trans people, especially trans women, are a threat to feminism. The trans women I know are feminists and care about women’s rights, are active in the LGBT community and above all just regular people with jobs and families. You seem so far removed from reality talking about a war.

Honest question, do you know many trans people or is this all based on what you read online?

You’re absolutely not a feminist

LadyBracknellsHandbagg · 28/02/2025 22:06

WillIEverBeOk · 28/02/2025 21:54

Any group of people who get women called 'menstruators', 'bleeders' or 'uterus havers' are not feminist.

Any group of people who remove womens sex-based rights to female only intimate safe single sex spaces and opens the door for intact males to enter, are not feminist.

Any group of people who enable post-pubertal males with all their insurmountable advantage to steal sports college scholarships, medals and rankings off girls, are not feminist.

Trans Ideology is DEEPLY dangerous to actual women and girls and erases all our sex-based rights.

It's clear that you haven't examined this issue thoroughly and have been privileged enough not to be touched by this dangerous Ideology and known girls and women who have lost their spaces and sporting scholarships.

Honest question; do you really think asking us if we know of any males in a dress who pose as women is some sort of a 'gotcha', as if we, including rape survivors like myself, will suddenly be 'oh it's ok, you males can enter our change rooms'? Really? We ALL know males. That doesn't mean we want them in our spaces or taking our awards. Meeting a male - whether in a suit or tie or in a dress - won't change that. Besides, most of us here are 'terfs' because we have first hand experience of these narcissistic transwomen. As they say, 'go meet a tranwoman, they said. I did. I am now terf'.

This, all day long 👏👏

AnSolas · 28/02/2025 22:09

Catza · 28/02/2025 21:46

No, they are not forced. And again, I was replying to a very specific comment made by a previous poster and not attempting to start a discussion on a wider Afghan culture, politics or ideology. The poster said the if women had a choice, there would be very few of them in Afghanistan. I mentioned that women of Afghanistan had this choice for centuries. Alas, they have many other choices removed from them but that's an entirely different topic.
For any other bacha posh- specific questions I suggest Google as a next step as there are people who are far more knowledgeable than me who wrote books and academic articles on the subject.

I had asked as the claim was made that "trans people" was :

AubernFable · Today 19:31
Please research trans people in history, it isn’t a new thing and in some cultures was widely understood and accepted. I understand your position but it’s worth fully understanding even if your feelings stay the same.
Show quote history

So me :
AnSolas · Today 19:41
Which cultures widely understood and accepted that women could opt out of being classed as women?
What righs or obligations were these group of "non-women women" offered which was not available to women as a class?

And widely accepted is a new class with different rights.

Otherwise its like claiming that women in Saudi who illegally drove water trucks were a new class of women. The local police ignored them due to a functional need but the women never had the right to a licence.