Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #13

1000 replies

nauticant · 11/02/2025 15:38

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to continue for 2 weeks although at the start of the second week getting everything done in this time period was looking less certain. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

However, as a result of problems with the liverstreaming, apparently as a result of a very large number of observers, remote public access to the hearing was suspended on Tuesday 11 February. It was suggested that it might be reinstated at some point but I wouldn't count on it.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9
Thread 10: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271723-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-10
Thread 11: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272046-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-11
Thread 12: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5272276-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-12

OP posts:
Thread gallery
35
MarieDeGournay · 11/02/2025 21:47

HCP making comatose woman pregnant actually happened, in USA in 2019 - I wonder if there was an earlier one, because I remember something from long before 2019.
Arizona police collect DNA at nursing home where comatose woman gave birth - ABC News

ArabellaScott · 11/02/2025 21:47

FannyCann · 11/02/2025 21:45

Still trying to catch up on today's action, what with the fast moving threads and tribunal tweets to look at.

Can anyone explain how/why everyone got bumped out of the online viewing. Was it for a reason or IT issues?
Is it expected that access will continue as before tomorrow or are they planning to shut the public out going forward?

I have the next two days off and hoping to watch some of the action, especially as NC will be asking more questions of DU (she hasn't finished with him yet has she?).

Thanks for all the info and documenting the threads so clearly.

Seemed to be overwhelmed by too many people wanting to observe. It was a bit odd, though, as everyone was in and watching with no problems, then all of a sudden people's cameras started going on, mics went on.

Hoardasurass · 11/02/2025 21:48

Sorry wrong telegraph link in my last post
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/11/trans-women-biologically-female-not-taught-medical-school/

ArabellaScott · 11/02/2025 21:49

TriesNotToBeCynical · 11/02/2025 21:15

Sorry the context was unnecessary breast examinations, and in that case it really doesn't matter whether the perpetrator was male or female or not.

Apart from the fact that 98-99% of sexual assaults are committed by males.

Nameychangington · 11/02/2025 21:50

AnnaMagnani · 11/02/2025 20:50

TUBE was definitely around when I was training in the 90s but I think (hope) dying out with the onset of chaperones and more women in medicine.

I personally won't do any form of intimate exam, on either sex, without a chaperone present even if the patient says they don't mind.

However I find I have to remind male doctors that just because they are examining another male, they still need the chaperone.

My Trust's chaperone policy refers to a patient being able to request a chaperone 'of the same self-identified gender as the patient'. So a woman asking for a female chaperone could get the fragrant Dr Upton (not that he'd lower himself to chaperoning, he's the main character) or a grubby man in a nylon wig could insist a young female ward nurse be required to chaperone his examination.

The NHS hates women (the boring cunty kind, not the super speshul kind like Dr Upton who must have their delicate feelings protected, obviously).

prh47bridge · 11/02/2025 21:51

HelenaHandcart · 11/02/2025 21:32

Would a male nurse, walking unannounced into a room in which a woman was in the middle of having a camera inserted into her urethra (by a doctor, with another nurse already present), and lifting up the sheet be considered a sexual assault? I'm asking because this happened to me just 2 weeks ago, and I still feel so violated. Still can't get my head around it. The doctor and nurse said nothing and I can't get my head around that either.

If he didn't touch you it can't be sexual assault. However, there are a number of offences it could be. I would encourage you to report this.

Greyrockin · 11/02/2025 21:52

Just trying to catch up. Wasn't able to join the observers online as I was office based today. I haven't had the email about proceedings only open to press from now on, just wondering if it's only been sent to people who logged in today? I'll find out tomorrow i guess.

Has David Tennant been proposed to play DU in the film? He'd be a good fit, lots of empathy... 🙄

FannyCann · 11/02/2025 21:53

Oh thanks @ArabellaScott
Fingers crossed for good links tomorrow then.

GailBlancheViola · 11/02/2025 21:54

HelenaHandcart · 11/02/2025 21:32

Would a male nurse, walking unannounced into a room in which a woman was in the middle of having a camera inserted into her urethra (by a doctor, with another nurse already present), and lifting up the sheet be considered a sexual assault? I'm asking because this happened to me just 2 weeks ago, and I still feel so violated. Still can't get my head around it. The doctor and nurse said nothing and I can't get my head around that either.

I would say so, that's awful. If you feel you can you should ask serious questions as to why that happened.

FannyCann · 11/02/2025 21:56

Just read this great post on X which beautifully explains a lot that went on today.
Thought I'd share.

"Day 7 Peggie v NHS Fife - Upton’s cross-examination continues to unravel, exposing the glaring contradictions in his testimony.

@tribunaltweets reports that the session may be continuing without the live feed. Here's what happened before the feed was cut.

Naomi Cunningham’s precise questioning, he has been forced to acknowledge uncomfortable truths—none more damning than his admission that women must take the initiative to opt out of being seen by a male doctor rather than having their request for female-only care automatically respected.

The exchanges over female patients requesting a woman doctor were particularly striking. Upton insisted he had no obligation to disclose his sex to patients, despite admitting that it is not always obvious he is male. This led to a critical moment: when asked whether a rape survivor requesting a female doctor should have to explain why, he evaded the point, refusing to acknowledge that placing the burden on the patient to justify her request is cruel and inappropriate. Instead, he tried to equate the issue with other forms of discrimination, suggesting that accommodating a woman’s need for a female doctor was akin to handling a racist patient’s request. This false equivalence speaks volumes about his unwillingness to acknowledge why single-sex care matters.

When Cunningham pressed him on a scenario involving a woman in A&E with unexplained heavy bleeding who explicitly requested a female doctor, Upton’s answer was evasive. He initially suggested it would depend on medical urgency but, when pushed, admitted that if the woman objected to his presence, he would step aside. This seemingly reasonable answer was undermined by the reality that it would fall on the patient to realise he was male in the first place—possibly when she was already in distress and vulnerable. Cunningham pointed out the cruelty of this expectation, highlighting that a woman might only realise he is male once she is already being examined. Rather than acknowledging the obvious problem, Upton deflected, repeating that it was the patient’s responsibility to express discomfort.

The contradictions in his behaviour regarding the changing room incident were also laid bare. On Christmas Eve, he insisted on his right to be in the female changing room despite knowing Peggie was uncomfortable. He framed her discomfort as bigotry rather than a legitimate expectation of privacy. Yet hours later, he claimed to feel unsafe, reporting distress over how Peggie had spoken to him. This inconsistency was key—he was willing to assert his right to be in a space where a woman was uncomfortable, but when faced with an uncomfortable interaction himself, he sought immediate action. Cunningham pressed him on this, pointing out that while he had demanded swift action from NHS Fife, he continued using the female changing room despite knowing Peggie had objected. His justification? That he would not let "bigoted opinions" dictate his behaviour. In other words, he dismissed her right to privacy and forced her into a situation she clearly wished to avoid.

His perception of hostility from Peggie was further scrutinised when it became clear that no one else recalled the incidents in the way he described. He had been documenting perceived slights—such as Peggie responding to another colleague rather than him—but these grievances amounted to little more than workplace friction. When confronted with the fact that neither Peggie nor other staff recalled the incidents he described, he fell back on the idea that it was his perception of hostility that mattered, rather than any objective reality. This was a devastating admission. A case that hinges on serious allegations against Peggie was revealed to rest not on clear-cut evidence, but on Upton’s personal feelings.

Perhaps the most striking moment came when Cunningham suggested that Upton’s determination to control language—insisting on the use of "she/her" pronouns and rejecting biological definitions—was about power. She put it to him that his position required total affirmation from colleagues, and that the issue with Peggie was that she refused to participate in what she described as an "immersive role play." Upton denied this but conceded that it "hurts" when people do not use his preferred language. This, combined with his legal team’s attempts to compel the tribunal to use his chosen terminology, underscores the imbalance at the heart of this case—women must be made to accommodate, but no such obligation is placed on him.

As the session progressed, the underlying theme of power and control became clearer. Upton’s insistence that his identity must be respected, while refusing to extend that same respect to women who request female-only care, was laid bare. His own shifting narrative—asserting himself in the changing room on Christmas Eve, only to claim fear and distress later—suggests an attempt to construct a grievance rather than a genuine concern for safety. His notes, detailing minor slights and perceived rudeness from Peggie, paint a picture not of someone facing discrimination, but of someone determined to build a case against a colleague who simply did not comply with his expectations.

At this stage, Upton’s credibility is in tatters. His testimony has exposed the fundamental flaws in self-ID policies—where women must justify their discomfort, while trans-identifying males are affirmed without question. The tribunal is laying bare the harsh reality of these policies in practice: women cannot opt out without consequence, and when they try, they are accused of bigotry, hostility, or worse. NHS Fife’s position in defending Upton is becoming increasingly indefensible. The tribunal is making it clear that this case is not just about one hospital—it is about whether women’s rights to privacy and dignity still mean anything at all."

x.com/boswelltoday/status/1889290105246138670?s=46

TriesNotToBeCynical · 11/02/2025 21:56

AlbertCamusflage · 11/02/2025 21:45

That would be an irrelevance. Nothing in the case depends on determining the sex of any party. Their sex is already known.
Upton's claim that he sees nuance in sex that the rest of us don't wouldn't be resolved by a cheek swab.

In any case, determining sex by cheek swab may be ok for a sports organisation which can make it's own rules but for social/legal use would be unfair to a very small number of people with DSDs who are born and brought up female but have the wrong cheek swab results. The problem is people obviously of the wrong sex, not people who have genuine difficulty determining it.

TriesNotToBeCynical · 11/02/2025 21:58

prh47bridge · 11/02/2025 21:51

If he didn't touch you it can't be sexual assault. However, there are a number of offences it could be. I would encourage you to report this.

Not true. Assault can be putting people in fear of harm, and there are sexual offences to do with voyeurism even though they are not assault.

lifeturnsonadime · 11/02/2025 21:58

teawamutu · 11/02/2025 21:46

Although I love the idea of Upton losing the License to Practice, I highly doubt it.

The bar for a ban seems incredibly high, and the GMC were the ones who voluntarily registered him as female in the first place.

He won't - the GMC are completely captured.

RethinkingLife · 11/02/2025 21:58

To give you a flavour of proceedings so far, on Monday, Upton – a doctor, remember – said biological sex was a ‘nebulous’ term. This is a case that was always going to attract attention and divide opinion. On one side there are those who agree Peggie should not have been expected to undress in front of someone male. On the other are those who think Upton was being bullied when Peggie said the presence of a man in a changing room made her uneasy.

The facts of this tribunal – including NHS Fife’s decision to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds of public cash defending itself – are extraordinary. More extraordinary, still, is the refusal of some of Scotland’s most senior politicians to acknowledge that anything unusual might be going on.
…
Faced, as they most certainly will be, with loud opposition to the demands of trans activists, John Swinney and Anas Sarwar can always try the tired old tactic of suggesting that those who don’t adhere to the mantra ‘trans women are women’ are terrible right-wing reactionaries. If they are wise, however, they will consider the public reaction to the case of Sandie Peggie. Politicians from every major party know voters care about this issue. And they all know it’s not going to go away. Yet Scotland’s leaders remain terrified to speak up lest they feel the wrath of activists. This is no way to go on.
It’s time for the ‘progressive’ men of Scottish politics to start speaking up for biological women. It’s the right thing to do – and they stand to pay a heavy price at the polls next year if they remain silent.

Spectator archive version: https://archive.is/wYJXS

CrystalSingerFan · 11/02/2025 21:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Well, Dame Joan Sutherland was 5' 9" (6 foot if you include the hair.)

Wonderful singer and part of that past world where she could sing Rossini's Semiramide (girly princess) next to Marilyn Horne (Arsace, butch commander of the Assyrian army, who was maybe a foot shorter.) Both wearing sparkly dresses. Nobody pretending to be anything other than human adult females. Those were the days...

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #13
ElsaThebrave8 · 11/02/2025 21:59

FannyCann · 11/02/2025 21:53

Oh thanks @ArabellaScott
Fingers crossed for good links tomorrow then.

Access tomorrow is going to be restricted to media (journalist ID required ans Tribunal Tweets) - at least that is what has been communicated out..

ArabellaScott · 11/02/2025 22:01

FannyCann · 11/02/2025 21:53

Oh thanks @ArabellaScott
Fingers crossed for good links tomorrow then.

Everybody is barred except for journalists going forward, unless they manage to fix the problems.

prh47bridge · 11/02/2025 22:02

TriesNotToBeCynical · 11/02/2025 21:58

Not true. Assault can be putting people in fear of harm, and there are sexual offences to do with voyeurism even though they are not assault.

Yes true. It may be assault, but the specific offence of sexual assault requires touching. Sexual Offences Act 2003 Section 3. So, as I said, it is not sexual assault but there are a number of offences that could apply.

Edited to add that personally I think it should be classed as sexual assault, but that is not how the law stands currently.

TriesNotToBeCynical · 11/02/2025 22:04

lifeturnsonadime · 11/02/2025 21:58

He won't - the GMC are completely captured.

The GMC are completely captured by the government (source of appointments and gongs), and if politicians change their mind so will they.

PlumbertimeInFife · 11/02/2025 22:04

Jerabilis · 11/02/2025 21:26

Another great article from the Telegraph, doing a great job making it clear that Dr Upton has no respect for anyone else https://telegraph.co.uk/gift/38348a65183c8c9d

Great article, only nitpick is the they/them they slipped in for DU near the end. Stood out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the article.

NotNatacha · 11/02/2025 22:05

Part 2 of Boswell’s Tweets, to follow @FannyCann ’s excellent post above.

Day 7 UPDATE Peggie v NHS Fife (covering late morning and PM session) - Upton’s Defence Crumbles as Cross-Examination Exposes Contradictions and Concealed Evidence

The late morning and afternoon sessions saw Dr Upton’s evidence unravel further under cross-examination from Naomi Cunningham, exposing more inconsistencies, evasions, and clear attempts to obscure the facts. His failure to provide a precise date for the resus incident became the focal point, with Cunningham demonstrating that his own phone notes recorded a much narrower timeframe—between 25 October and 18 December. Yet, when asked during the investigation, Upton failed to disclose this, instead offering a broader range that conveniently made it harder to verify his claims. When confronted, he admitted this was an "error," but the pattern of vagueness was too convenient to be accidental.

Cunningham then exposed another contradiction: while Upton claimed not to recall working with Peggie on the peanut allergy case, he conceded that he did work with her on the same shift with another patient. Peggie had given a specific date—Halloween—tying the incident to a child who suffered an allergic reaction after eating a Snickers bar. Upton, however, feigned ignorance, unable—or unwilling—to link the patient to a date. His defence crumbled when Cunningham pointed out that this meant the incident could indeed be dated, directly undermining his attempts to blur the timeline. The questioning made it abundantly clear: Upton was being deliberately vague, likely to prevent scrutiny of his allegations against Peggie.

Cunningham then turned to the chronology of Upton’s complaints, revealing yet more late-disclosed documents that showed he had carefully constructed his story over time. Despite claiming he reported the incident straight away, his actual complaint evolved over weeks, with emails sent to the BMA, Antony Wilson, and others only surfacing at the last minute. The judge’s patience wore thin as it became clear that relevant documents had still not been produced, leading to more delays. Upton attempted to justify this by claiming some were on his personal email, yet Cunningham exposed how key material had simply been omitted. When asked whether he had handed over everything as requested, he weakly replied that he "believed so"—a phrase rapidly losing any credibility.

The judge, clearly frustrated by the incompetence and obstruction, acknowledged that the case would not conclude this week. Cunningham, unflinching, stated that compliance with document orders had been "at best incompetent and incoherent," warning that more delays were inevitable if further missing evidence had to be requested. She pointed out the unfairness of leaving Upton under oath for long periods due to his own failure to provide full disclosure in a timely manner. Despite this, NHS Fife’s legal team, led by Jane Russell, attempted to downplay the significance of the missing documents, insisting they were irrelevant. The judge disagreed, noting that relevance could not be determined until all materials were properly reviewed.

As proceedings wrapped up, the tribunal confirmed that cross-examination of Upton must be completed by 2:30 the next day, with further witnesses—including Esther D, Isla Bamber, and Vic Valentine—scheduled to follow. Cunningham requested that all missing documents be provided by 5:30 that evening, printed and ready for review. The judge agreed, setting the stage for what is likely to be another damning day for Upton and NHS Fife when the tribunal resumes.

Edit - apologies that I can’t link to a tweet, but it’s a couple of tweets after the one @FannyCann links to above.

TriesNotToBeCynical · 11/02/2025 22:06

prh47bridge · 11/02/2025 22:02

Yes true. It may be assault, but the specific offence of sexual assault requires touching. Sexual Offences Act 2003 Section 3. So, as I said, it is not sexual assault but there are a number of offences that could apply.

Edited to add that personally I think it should be classed as sexual assault, but that is not how the law stands currently.

Edited

It was at the very least a disciplinary offence, not seeking consent. Whether it was any kind of sexual offence depends on the motive.

NotAGentleReminder · 11/02/2025 22:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I don't think so. His marriage record is on Scotland's People. To a woman. And a girl with the same name as this woman was in the same year as him at his old school so does not appear to be a man who has adopted a woman's name and identity. In the photos, unlike him she looks female anyway.

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 11/02/2025 22:08

I am genuinely annoyed about being barred from the hearing.

It's not very open justice-y.
It's also weird that the 'too many people using the software' happened just at the time people were behaving poorly again.

He'd reached the end of his tether with the lack of decorum.

oldwomanwhoruns · 11/02/2025 22:08

FannyCann · 11/02/2025 21:56

Just read this great post on X which beautifully explains a lot that went on today.
Thought I'd share.

"Day 7 Peggie v NHS Fife - Upton’s cross-examination continues to unravel, exposing the glaring contradictions in his testimony.

@tribunaltweets reports that the session may be continuing without the live feed. Here's what happened before the feed was cut.

Naomi Cunningham’s precise questioning, he has been forced to acknowledge uncomfortable truths—none more damning than his admission that women must take the initiative to opt out of being seen by a male doctor rather than having their request for female-only care automatically respected.

The exchanges over female patients requesting a woman doctor were particularly striking. Upton insisted he had no obligation to disclose his sex to patients, despite admitting that it is not always obvious he is male. This led to a critical moment: when asked whether a rape survivor requesting a female doctor should have to explain why, he evaded the point, refusing to acknowledge that placing the burden on the patient to justify her request is cruel and inappropriate. Instead, he tried to equate the issue with other forms of discrimination, suggesting that accommodating a woman’s need for a female doctor was akin to handling a racist patient’s request. This false equivalence speaks volumes about his unwillingness to acknowledge why single-sex care matters.

When Cunningham pressed him on a scenario involving a woman in A&E with unexplained heavy bleeding who explicitly requested a female doctor, Upton’s answer was evasive. He initially suggested it would depend on medical urgency but, when pushed, admitted that if the woman objected to his presence, he would step aside. This seemingly reasonable answer was undermined by the reality that it would fall on the patient to realise he was male in the first place—possibly when she was already in distress and vulnerable. Cunningham pointed out the cruelty of this expectation, highlighting that a woman might only realise he is male once she is already being examined. Rather than acknowledging the obvious problem, Upton deflected, repeating that it was the patient’s responsibility to express discomfort.

The contradictions in his behaviour regarding the changing room incident were also laid bare. On Christmas Eve, he insisted on his right to be in the female changing room despite knowing Peggie was uncomfortable. He framed her discomfort as bigotry rather than a legitimate expectation of privacy. Yet hours later, he claimed to feel unsafe, reporting distress over how Peggie had spoken to him. This inconsistency was key—he was willing to assert his right to be in a space where a woman was uncomfortable, but when faced with an uncomfortable interaction himself, he sought immediate action. Cunningham pressed him on this, pointing out that while he had demanded swift action from NHS Fife, he continued using the female changing room despite knowing Peggie had objected. His justification? That he would not let "bigoted opinions" dictate his behaviour. In other words, he dismissed her right to privacy and forced her into a situation she clearly wished to avoid.

His perception of hostility from Peggie was further scrutinised when it became clear that no one else recalled the incidents in the way he described. He had been documenting perceived slights—such as Peggie responding to another colleague rather than him—but these grievances amounted to little more than workplace friction. When confronted with the fact that neither Peggie nor other staff recalled the incidents he described, he fell back on the idea that it was his perception of hostility that mattered, rather than any objective reality. This was a devastating admission. A case that hinges on serious allegations against Peggie was revealed to rest not on clear-cut evidence, but on Upton’s personal feelings.

Perhaps the most striking moment came when Cunningham suggested that Upton’s determination to control language—insisting on the use of "she/her" pronouns and rejecting biological definitions—was about power. She put it to him that his position required total affirmation from colleagues, and that the issue with Peggie was that she refused to participate in what she described as an "immersive role play." Upton denied this but conceded that it "hurts" when people do not use his preferred language. This, combined with his legal team’s attempts to compel the tribunal to use his chosen terminology, underscores the imbalance at the heart of this case—women must be made to accommodate, but no such obligation is placed on him.

As the session progressed, the underlying theme of power and control became clearer. Upton’s insistence that his identity must be respected, while refusing to extend that same respect to women who request female-only care, was laid bare. His own shifting narrative—asserting himself in the changing room on Christmas Eve, only to claim fear and distress later—suggests an attempt to construct a grievance rather than a genuine concern for safety. His notes, detailing minor slights and perceived rudeness from Peggie, paint a picture not of someone facing discrimination, but of someone determined to build a case against a colleague who simply did not comply with his expectations.

At this stage, Upton’s credibility is in tatters. His testimony has exposed the fundamental flaws in self-ID policies—where women must justify their discomfort, while trans-identifying males are affirmed without question. The tribunal is laying bare the harsh reality of these policies in practice: women cannot opt out without consequence, and when they try, they are accused of bigotry, hostility, or worse. NHS Fife’s position in defending Upton is becoming increasingly indefensible. The tribunal is making it clear that this case is not just about one hospital—it is about whether women’s rights to privacy and dignity still mean anything at all."

x.com/boswelltoday/status/1889290105246138670?s=46

There is no guarantee that the judge will come away from today with this'take' on the proceedings. He may well think that the day went differently.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.