NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #10

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9

After much controversy the Scottish Parliament did vote that victims of sexual assault have the right to request to be examined by a doctor of the sex of their choosing - so there is legal precedent that a patient can object to a transwoman doctor on the grounds of them being male.

I don't think it matters that he's stayed calm and collected. What he is saying is clearly completely insane.

If a person can convince themselves that the gender ideology being expressed under oath is the truth, how can you believe anything they say?

Brilliant NC for asking that question and brilliant nauticant for keeping the threads flowing

He is a true believer, so has been entirely internally consistent.

How's that relevant to whether Peggie was harrassed, which is what the case is about? Being a "true believer" does not excuse harrassment.

What's being demonstrated here is how the belief is leading to harrassment - due to his strong feelings and insistence haranguing non-believers.

Searle can only come tomorrow? Interpose the witness? Discussion.

I'm keeping up on here, if anyone else finds it helpful:
https://x.com/tribunaltweets

NHS Fife getting plenty of comments on their recent posts
https://x.com/nhsfife/status/1887098704957472918

I do remember Ben Cooper asking questions and just letting the answers remain.

It's not like on here where you drill down into an argument to expose the most basic inconsistencies.

just letting the person tell you what they think, feel, and want, is sometimes quite enough, without you revealing their motivations.

Having said that, I feel like a fucking wet rag reading through these threads. I'm a bit behind, too, playing catch up. my jaw is really hurting!

It’s only a matter of tome before a patient complains if his position is that he would treat a female patient who had asked for a female clinician if that patient didn’t recognise him as male.

Is the woman in the bottom, right hand corner, with her back to the camera SP?

"There's no cure for being a cunt", as Bron sagely observed in Game Of Thrones.

That was the comment I was referring to - just after DU ponders the awful necessity for women who have suffered trauma having to disclose this so accomodations could be made. It was 👌

That's a court employee

Damn. It's not just his "slip showing," he's doing the rhetorical equivalent of hoiking it up so high his entire arse is on display.

witnesses are always swapped around out of 'preferred' order - it's par for the course

And he feels, absolutely, that his personal belief that he is a 'biological female' means that he has the right to inflict himself on other women whether they consent to it or not.

Ugh I have an office day tomorrow. Will have to catch up on the zillion threads in the evening.

JR whinging. Well maybe she shouldn't have objected quite do much

I think he comes across as a very difficult witness. He is not willing to answer basic questions (like how many women on average use the changing room). His fight with NC about language was not a good look at all. He seems evasive and uncooperative. He just doesn't seem sympathetic at all.

It's quite rich of JR to say the questioning is taking too long when she is constantly objecting and interrupting.

DU looks delighted at the prospect of being XX for another day.

Timing - Bog off why is JR and that side so dominating

What a fucking cheek JR has complaining about how long NC is taking to question DU.

100%

The objective of cross examination is not to make a witness crumble. It is to get them to say things that undermine their evidence. From what I'm reading, it seems like DU has done this in spades.

The cross examination has gone on so long cos Dr U had waffle d on for so long!