NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #10

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9

I’m quite impressed with the Dublin student. It’s a good clear article (and a clearer headline) drawing out the key facts with no obfuscation. Could teach the BBC a thing or two.

It was so obvious - she is supposed to object after the question and before the answer. But on several occasions objected after the answer and said "might it not be x y z" trying to answer for him. Thankfully the judge picked that up - I wouldn't have realised if he hadn't corrected her

That's remarkable!

It really is.

NC referred to this today - saying DU was "legally a man" as part of a question. I think that is due to the lack of GRC

I hope NC does that thing she did in the ERCC case where she pointed at the male judge and asked the witness if that was a man or a woman. Brainwashed witness said she genuinely didn't know. Think that might drive the point home to this judge, just how deluded Dr U ( and this ideology) is!

When you have time, keep reading the older threads on this forum, too. There is a lot of food for thought and interesting arguments. Many forumers have amassed a lot of information on various aspects.

A PP posted on one of the earlier threads about a trans-identifying man who kept forcing his mother, who had dementia, to say that he was a woman. It's abusive.

I'm at work tomorrow & it won't be easy to cover up listening in while I work so I'll no doubt be back later to catch up on 3 or 4 threads. Almost tempted to pull a sick day 🥴 I won't, but it's soooooo tempting...

I’m so angry about this case. The sheer arrogance of the man.

I wonder about his parents. This is your son, you’ve known he was male from the day of his birth, and now you have to sit here and listen to him declaring such absolute bullshit publicly in a court of law. What does that feel like.

BBC have changed the title on today's article regarding the tribunal. It used to say:

"Transgender doctor tells tribunal 'I am not male'."

But now it is:

"I'm only asking for basic respect says doctor in NHS changing room row."

They also changed the first paragraph.

"It was so obvious - she is supposed to object after the question and before the answer. But on several occasions objected after the answer and said "might it not be x y z" trying to answer for him. Thankfully the judge picked that up - I wouldn't have realised if he hadn't corrected her"

I missed this part, by the time I got onto the phone link, all that had passed. Interesting though that she was objecting to his answers. That doesn't bode well for him at all.

They are such handmaidens.

Fortunately other headlines are also available.

Or his wife knowing that he is a man as she must have intimate knowledge of him and yet he says he is biological female.

how does she work that out in her head

Anyone know if Upton's mum was attending the tribunal today? I am just imagining how it might feel hearing your son - whom you lovingly named Theodore (God's gift) Benedict (blessed) and supported through all his expensive medical education - declare that he is biologically female and see how unpleasant his attitude is towards women.
Wouldn't blame her if she decided not to show up...

It's a good article but I think they missed out the bit where he says he's a biological woman and the stuff about biological sex being a 'nebulous dogwhistle'. That would have been the icing on the cake.

He made a comment earlier in his testimony about someone having homophobic views in relation to his relationship with his wife. I can't remember the exact wording but he's as deluded about their relationship as everything else. She's clearly expected to identify as lesbian as a result of his claimed 'womanhood' & so far is supporting him. It's mind blowing how much a woman has to reshape her worldview & personal views in response to a man - her husband - deciding he's a woman, female, lesbian.

I'm not sure they completely knew. They discussed a few options. I thought settled on DU tomorrow. KS can't attend any other day this week and they were beginning to think they couldn't get through the rest of the list (other than KS) plus closing arguments (?) by Friday. So they discussed coming back again at a future date as a continuance. But they also pondered extended hours to see if a continuance could be avoided.

I find it quite instructive to also look at how the BBC ends its 'balanced' neutral coverage. So on the 'I'm only asking for basic respect' article, they've finished with:

Dr Upton claimed Ms Peggie was aggressive during the exchange, adding: "I consider the act of waiting for a colleague to leave, confronting her, asking personal questions, and using pejorative language inappropriate."
The tribunal continues.

And on the 'Trans doctor left 'upset and afraid' by nurse' article, they finished with:

This left Dr Upton feeling "saddened" and "unfairly judged", but not wanting to put in a formal complaint to avoid making a fuss. The doctor's gender identity had otherwise been "respected" by colleagues, the tribunal was told.
The tribunal continues.

Upton can hardly be blamed for thinking the world revolves around him and his feelings because certainly the BBC coverage does!

Edit to add context: these articles were written after the claimant and the respondent had been on the stand so might be expected to have mirrored each other if they had been truly neutral, e.g. one article focused on one person's perspective and one based on the other's. Unfortunately, the BBC accidentally prioritised one person's view. However could that have happened.

@NotAGentleReminder I gift shared the Telegraph article earlier so you should be able to see the comments from that link.

It's already up to well over 4,000 comments, operation 'let them speak' doing a great job peaking people.

She was 18 when she wrote Wuthering Heights. However, she was 13 when she wrote The Man with the Child in His Eyes.

The BBC article changed this evening, the original one was better.

https://x.com/JournalismSEEN/status/1889053208129278304

I know. I went with the one they left up. But the change is interesting. And sinister.

If you look back to the post at 18:34 by @Jerabilis there's a share of a link to the Telegraph article which will open complete and show all the comments - over 4K of them now (thanks, @Jerabilis!)

ETA - just noticed you pointed this out yourself, but my thanks still stand

I wonder if Dr Upton thinks that ovarian cysts, period pain, endometriosis, uterine fibroids, ovarian cancer, miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy, uterine prolapse, childbirth, menopause, PMT/PMS, and cervical cancer are "nebulous/ dog whistles".

Or if they are all ONLY suffered by approximately half of the population.
The half to which he does not belong.

Maybe he thinks those things don't exist either......or if they DO, then anyone can have them.
If they want.