NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #10

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9

Taytoface · Today 15:54

I would love to be on the Maya F & Helen J WhatsApp back channel right now.

Wouldn't we all!!!

Does anyone else here remember the golden time of maybe 4 years ago when trans activists were declaring that no one was claiming to be female, but they were saying they were women, because that term embraced both "cis-women and transwomen"?

For me, he is manipulative, smiling and beguiling. His position has no evidential basis and it reliant on the use of trans activist terminology, that there are different forms of women, cis and trans. It is, in legal terms, nonsense on stilts and I really should be doing more productive things than paying any attention to the illogical shite that he spews, understating my feelings on the matter.

I think the truly unhinged ones have always claimed to be "female"

I wish they'd just say 'male doctor' though

DU's evidence to the ET today about the conflict in the changing room came across as robust, argumentative, intransigent and refused to back down - quite the contract to the "poor vulnerable TW" who minutes later ran around A&E to find the consultant on duty - crying and shaking - to complain that this incident was a "hate crime" and needed to be escorted to their car because they were "afraid".

He's a very manipulative man.

Not all left-leaning people take this view. A fair proportion of terfs have a background in progressive politics, as I do myself. I'm still a member of the Labour party, and very glad to see how our leadership is now backing away from the gender ideology cult.

Who was it that described gender ideology as a mind virus? It seems so apt with this level of delusion on display.

It’s hard to imagine how someone who has conducted himself as he has today felt “afraid” or “intimidated” by Sandie in the CR.

Absolutely. Today he's demonstrated himself willing and able to argue his beliefs, very pushy and domineering towards women. The ET will be sceptical that SP politely saying "you really shouldn't be in here" caused him such deep, existential distress.

Totally this

Elon Musk described it as the ' woke mind virus '. His son was transed behind his back and he's livid about it. Understandably so. And so he bought Twitter!

You snooze you lose!

ran around A&E to find the consultant on duty - crying and shaking - to complain that this incident was a "hate crime" and needed to be escorted to their car because they were "afraid".

And yet this wouldn't be the reaction of a biological female, would it? If SP said to me she wasn't comfortable changing in front of me because I'm male, I'd just try to chat to her and reassure her that I am female. I wouldn't be offended, I'd just wonder why she thought that and try to help. The idea that it was a "hate crime" wouldn't even occur to me.

I'll be there with you I mean metaphorically, but who knows we could be in the same waiting room! Look out for a pissed off woman with a walker swearing into her phone!

Yes indeed. He's probably feeling very pleased with himself, but the judge and panel have seen for themselves how confident, assertive and sure of himself he is, challenging both the barrister, the judge and the nature of both biology and language itself! He's no shirking, easily intimidated wallflower...

The message on Fife NHS Twitter account profile is

'If you are experiencing despair or distress please call NHS 24 on 111, Samaritans on 116 123 or Breathing Space on 0800 838 587.'

I'm certainly despairing!

He would adopt the ERCC solution, which is to say 'we're all women here, but you're not allowed to know our real sex sex assigned at birth, because that's confidential medical information'.

Aye. Notice that they don't tell you to contact NHS Fife.

In my mind, Fife Hospital sounds as mad as the hospital in Green Wing (old Ch4 series).

I have visions of senior doctors and HR all hiding whenever the fragrant doctor is on the prowl.

Nobody has mentioned it recently, but let's remember that SP would only ever have encountered Dr U on weekend night shifts. Others can comment on how busy corridors and changing rooms would be away from A&E.

PS Gutted somebody has nabbed the fuller version of my name change (I will make a note of it on my phone in case it escalates).

Not for the first time, I feel for the forgotten victim here - the English language. The Canpaign for Plain must be distraught. Such word gymnastics.

Perhaps such exhausting gender-related
term bending should be categorised as semen-tics.

Some quite obvious male pattern baldness on this biological female.

So after day of being correctly identified as a man, using he pronouns, and being challenged over his belief system, did anyone spot him, close to collapse, being helped to his car, crying his eyes out?

I really hope the judge can see it. I hope the other two panel members, both women, can see it. I don't think JR saw it until NC spelled out what he was doing.. I think that 'oh!' of her's was the sound of a penny dropping.

So to anyone who's missed most of today, the life of Brian sketch where Stan wants to have babies is the best summing up i can think of (of the bit i saw) - except even more illogical and batshit. And Stan was a lot nicer towards women.