NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #10

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse
Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3
Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4
Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5
Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6
Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7
Thread 8: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271511-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-8
Thread 9: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5271596-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-9

It's subtle but in my experience men are more vulgar than women so he was right to notice his vernacular didn't match his "identity"

No one can say. But I'd say there's enough here already for an appeal if it does go sp's way.

Folk hero for the pronoun posse, useful tool for the gender theorists, dangerous narcissist for all the women he treats and, hopefully, mad as a box of frogs to everyone else

Yes, like the disastrous TV interview Prince Andrew which he came out of thinking he had done really well.

Are we still going? Just finished some calls
and wondering if it’s worth rejoining at this stage. Looks like I’ve missed quite a bit…

Until today I was 'just' angry at him. Today he scared me. His refusal to answer and insistence that NC stop using her language and use his instead was utterly chilling.

Having heard the unbelievable level of entitlement, self righteousness smuggery & arguing black was white, I’m assuming Searles defence will be “did you hear him?? He’s obvious off his rocker and there’s no way I could upset him, I mean look what he does!”

dr Upton not understanding that women give on to him because he has a very male level of confidence and entitlement

They have been told to wrap things up.

They want us to use their language.

I'm older - in my 60s - so I cringe any time a doctor asks me about 'pee' or 'peeing'. I was well schooled by my working-class mother (Fife) that you refer to 'passing water' when you're at the doctor's.

Certainly 'wee' in the context of urinating sounds very middle-class English [as in 'emanating from England'] to me.

I loathe the use of the word 'pooh' on NHS Scotland websites and information leaflets these days. (Yes, had to do my 3 yearly bowel cancer test before Christmas.) My mother would not have approved at all!

I don't know who will win the case - I think that will turn quite a lot on legal definitions (what exactly is harrassment etc). In the court of public opinion, we'll come out on top, for certain sure. People are peaking all round the country with every news item about the case.

Oh my christ.

I was very glad to have spent most of this afternoon slam wedging clay because the whole 'I'm a biological woman' schtick was infuriating. It really is hard to know how to say any words when they are twisted and contorted so much. Anyone who knows anything about control and domination can see this a mile off. Well done to NC for pointing that out.

Do you mean if it does, or if it doesn't? I'm not seeing what the argument would be on Upton's side for an appeal?

Back from picking up small humans grown in and birthed from my female body.

Thank you for this summary Datun.

I would say I'm sorry i had to miss it but it wasn't doing my blood pressure any good.

Is it safe to say he's given a good explanation of why women particularly don't want this kind of man in their spaces?

I want single sex spaces, but more than that, I want organisations to stop lying to me and their female employees about spaces that they've labelled single sex but actually are mixed sex - this is a massive safeguarding failure and it takes the ability of women to risk assess for themselves and their children away.

I definitely don't want to have to share mixed sex spaces with only the type of man that thinks woman is a feeling at best and a porn category at worst and that women should always be subservient to his needs and beliefs and that their beliefs - even if a majority belief - don't matter. I don't want to share spaces with men who are so completely untethered from reality that they'll put me and my children in danger rather than accept reality exists.

I'd rather just have a completely mixed sex and honestly so with at least a reasonable chance that there will be some decent blokes in there too to act as a buffer and reduce the chance that the males that don't recognise a female's right to say 'no' will overstep and bully. Because we know that this happens and apparently, with the encouragement of the NHS in this case.

Sorry I meant doesn't.

Still catching up. All the TRA shite that has come out of Upton's mouth today in response to NC's questions, I have heard come out of my own trans-identifying now adult child's mouth (except 'you have to say I am a man because I say so' as she is female). The change in personality, this smug controlling persona I don't recognise, it's all very familiar. I've noticed the girls who adopt trans identities appear to aspire to be like the men who claim to be women. The whole thing is male-dominated.
Reading it all on here today has been quite hard. It's been going on here for over three years. I have not capitulated. She stopped talking to me four months ago. I am the only person as far as I am aware that has not affirmed my daughter's male identity and I hold everyone who has done so responsible for her ongoing dependence on identifying this way and her brainwashed state. And the internet.

Well if Naomi wanted to demonstrate that this man is controlling, dominating, brooks no argument, doesn't give a shit about consent, doesn't understand sex discrimination, has absolutely no affinity with or for women, and believes that the feelings in his head trump reality, then I'd say she's done a bloody bang up job.

She underlined it by pretty much summing it up like that just before the end today.

That sounds really difficult NotAGentleReminder

Whoever said 'at least he's internally consistent' - well he's not even that. He has said several times he's female and biologically female, then denied there is such a thing.

Yes, I'd agree. Before I left to pick up small humans, I was scared.

THIS is the type of man who the left think we should have rule over us. Utterly terrifying. It's absolutely Orwellian. He wants biological women to have no right to self define at all.

NotAGentleReminder so hard, big hug for you.

@themostspecialelfintheworkshop I'd rather just have a completely mixed sex and honestly so with at least a reasonable chance that there will be some decent blokes in there too to act as a buffer and reduce the chance that the males that don't recognise a female's right to say 'no' will overstep and bully.

I think that the queer theorists are using the TWAW crowd to push us to a position where we give up our separate- and single-sex spaces for the very reason you outline. The Malaga crowd won't be happy, but the queer theorists want to remove all boundaries

It is. He is female, and is biological. Therefore he is a biological female. It is bonkers, but I think there is some internal consistency there.

I think DU really showed everyone that gender ideology is inherently abusive with no respect for anyone who does not agree to going along with its demands. It's comply or be damned.

If you are a fan of the JKR Strike books (and not watching directly) is your metal image also Will Ensor lecturing Robin about church doctrine on the vegetable patch.

Feels like DU has suppressed all sense to buy in fully to things that contradict each other and make no sense, but uses an above average intelligence to argue ferociously with anyone questioning any of it.