NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #8

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on Thursday 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

Thread 5: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269149-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-5

Thread 6: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5269635-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-6

Thread 7: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5270365-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-7

To all you ladies who’ve had a hysterectomy- be thankful that a man will give you permission to still be in the changing room - and you are no different to him with his penis and balls

Hahaha!!

women with deep voices

My constitution is not made for this. Fuming

She's leading him down a dead end street, magic!

And interesting how his voice is sounding so much more male now

SO much for the yes and no answers....

NC - difference is women's clothes and make up

BU - if we're exploring gender expression, clothes have gender - your gender expression doesn't have to match your gender identty, doesnt' make GI less valid

NC - is difference you speak softly?

BU - there are women with harsh, soft, high, low voices. Don't think voices are defined gender identity or exprssion, they may choose to use as gender expression

DrU is trying to say that NC is talking about gender expression, where as he is talking about gender identity.

How on earth is this guy working in an actual job?

Yes!

This is going to come down to "gender identity" isn't it? Therefore if the imaginary Pete declares womanhood, women would need to accept him in women's CRs or risk being called bigot or transphobe.

True - but it IS to legally change his sex and potentially entitle him to use women’s restrooms

Difference between DU and PeteThePlumber. So it's not -
womb having
physique
gender expression
clothes
makeup
voice

NC Is is that you say you're a woman
DU - blah blah blah, yes

The way they move through the world - that’s apparently what defines a woman

NC - is the difference tha t you say you're a woman and Pete doesn't?

BU - predominantly. Their way of moving through the world and express themselves. Varies from person to person. If someone is sincere, that's to be respected.

Just because he says he's a woman

GTF

He's at the if I say I'm a woman then you'd better fall in line stage and that's to be respected

Aha - so is she now going to ask 'if Peter now says he is a woman, is that now OK'

DrU - different is the person’s sincerely expressed identity, way of moving through the world, and their way of thinking of themselves - this is to be respected and I don’t see why it shouldn’t be

Hopefully!

I'm liking the line of questioning now.

Have been combing a jumper to manage my emotions!

Boom!

Yes, here she goes!

I've followed the previous parts of this tribunal by reading the responses. Today is the first time I've seen things. My impression of Beth has changed. I assumed a vulnerability that does not seem to be there.

Far away behind a screen, my senses -provoked by the way he behaves and moves and speaks- are alerting me to male-threat. He really isn't a good representative of that vulnerable minority we must all be kind to.

This is my first time watching the live video. I can't believe how smug he is. He thinks he's so much smarter than everyone else, he actually gets quite sneery and self satisfied at times!