Mumsnet listed as Anti-Trans

[Hoosemover]

there a list of organisations and Mumsnet is on it. Along with the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

x.com/twisterfilm/status/1888255119449268674?s=61

...because?

Show your workings please.

Although I'm not the poster who made the declaration, I have made a study of what constitutes the offending behaviours, based on the recent legal testimony and contemporaneous notes of The Righteous.

• Not making eye-contact with The Righteous.
• Making eye-contact with The Righteous.
• Waiting outside the ladies' changing room until The Righteous leaves.
• Entering the ladies's changing room while The Righteous is still within.
• Speaking to The Righteous.
• Not speaking to The Righteous.

i'd be wary of pushing the idea that because its not "to do with the body" its therefore automatically a mental illness..

What other options are there? I don't believe in souls, so unless you believe in souls where does trans reside if not in body or mind?

You have no idea how I felt.

Telling people how they feel and why it is wrong is the whole problem here.

Hands up who doesn't have a gender identity that matches their body? What, all of you? Serious?

OK then this is now a Trans Space and I'll ask the MNHQ to rename it New Trans Reddit?

You are absolutely correct with your last sentence. I agree. Don't tell women how they feel and why that's wrong.

I don't have a gender identity, full stop. I have a sex, which is female. I also have a personality. What more does anyone need?

Yes, most of us here don't have a gender identity. As we don't have one, it can't match our sex so we're all trans. Why would a place full of trans people be anti trans? If you refuse to validate our transness you are being transphobic

Hmmm. Respecting space and breaks isn't something I've witnessed. It's usually whooping and cries of "She can't answer!" From multiple posters of questions aren't immediately answered.

I’m guessing this is the crux of the FWR issue and why some say MN is transphobic. Posters come on either from the I have a trans friend/they’re lovely/you are all unkind or from TRAs. Regular posters then start asking legitimate questions. As the bekind/TRA position is indefensible and they’re not willing to engage on the legitimate questions, their only possible response is a behaviour ie remaining silent or repeating accusations of you’re being nasty. Yes, it is intimidating to have an indefensible argument with many well informed posters on material issues. However that’s not on MN or FWR.

The idea that gender identities match a sex is transphobic too. "Woman" matching "female"? Why, what's female about a woman?

Yet you need this concept for today's definition of trans. I assume it's now transphobic to say a trans person is someone who wants to be the opposite sex.

The wiki page on 'non-binary' says 'some may reject gender identity altogether'.
Gender critical people honestly are 'non binary' with regards to gender, the idea of binary 'gender' is shallow and restrictive.

Now that I think of it, of the last three very frequent and regular male people with transgender identities, one stopped after telling us all that female breast size predicted something about heirarchy of worth (maybe someone can word that more accurately).

Another was asked to stop spamming us one thread after thread about their book, and got most upset because people pointed out that their book was written from their own perspective of law which then was shown to be an accurate interpretation of discrimination law pretty much straight after publication. And was shown to be yet another male poster who couldn’t recognise female boundaries, including entering a thread of a woman where that poster was known to be advising the organisation she is taking to court.

And most recently, a male poster spent about five threads telling us why male people with transgender identities should be exempt from
sex by deception laws. Because to that male poster, no person should expect to know the sex of the person they are about to have sex with because to expect a trans person to out themselves like that is cruel. And if someone found out they had had unwanted sex with someone because they would never have consented to sex with that person knowing the sex they were, that person should just never agree to have sex with that partner again and get on with life.

Male people with transgender identities are very welcome to post on this site. They get asked questions in the same manner as people ask questions of any poster. They get disagreed with the same as any other poster. They are treated as any other poster. I reckon they must find out a great deal about themselves in the their own reactions to those discussions. Including a better understanding of the misogyny and the sexism they claim to experience yet find out they have not probably ever understood in their own reactions.

The question is, why should anyone feel they should be treated differently on this board?

I experience parts of the site as trans-phobic.

It’s the “I’m not transphobic, but..” vibe.

Own it - or be more open to discussion anyone who does not share the party line.

This one made me laugh. Every time there is someone who doesn't share the "party line" (presumably meaning GC views) there's a whole queue of posters wanting to discuss it with them. If anything the problem is that too many people want to join the discussion at once so the poster feels mobbed.

What you mean is posters aren't open to just agreeing with you because you say so. They ask questions that to answer properly would require examination of why you hold the beliefs you do, and whether they're logically consistent. They want to explain their own understanding of the situation in response. That may not be comfortable, but it's hardly transphobic. If there's one thing MN is, it's open to discussion 🤣

The feeling mobbed thing isn't unique to trans issues. If you post any view that the majority think is wrong, you will get a lot of posters disagreeing and explaining why. Just look at AIBU. It's a busy, fast-moving site.

So it's pretty much the meme "Everyone I Don't Like Is Hitler" but in list form...thanks whoever did this, we now have a handy guide to those who won't bend the knee.

Can you link to examples of transphobia here? I'm genuinely interested in what some people might class as transphobic statements or opinions.

Or just human rights in general.

@Princessconsuelabananahammock9 the answer to that is how much are they willing to listen to women?

The amount of times the word woman appears on that list makes it very clear who is actually being targeted...and they say it's not a male supremacy movement...

Apologies for all the typos. But these ones change the accuracy considerably:

“Another was asked to stop spamming us one thread after thread about their book, and got most upset because people pointed out that their book was written from their own perspective of law which then was shown to be an accurate interpretation of discrimination law pretty much straight after publication”

should be :

Another was asked to stop spamming us on thread after thread about their book, and got most upset because people pointed out that their book was written from their own perspective of law which then was shown to be an inaccurate interpretation of discrimination law pretty much straight after publication.

And the answer to that can be easily checked once you remember their names, and the answer is they are not willing to listen to women unless those women agree that they, as a male person, are to be treated as if they were exactly like us who are female people.

Unless we comply, we are not to be respected.

“This one made me laugh. Every time there is someone who doesn't share the "party line" (presumably meaning GC views) there's a whole queue of posters wanting to discuss it with them. If anything the problem is that too many people want to join the discussion at once so the poster feels mobbed.”

This is a good summary of what happens. Many times posters who tell us they have a different opinion don’t want to answer questions.

They feel they should just plonk down their opinion, some times with a negative generalisation or accusation, and be ‘respected’. While their negative generalisation or accusation was certainly not respectful but they expect to be able to say it without push back.

Like starting a thread with the view that anyone supporting a particular EO signed by Trump means that those people are full supporters of Trump and worthy of being lectured to and derided for supporting just that one or two related EOs. And then complaining that they, the OP, did nothing wrong, why are people answering negatively?

It is a tactic that is played out over and over by activists across the internet where answers are mostly short form or with heavy moderation. And people replicate it here believing they are righteously allowed to make such negative generalisations and accusations. But MN doesn’t work that way on many topics. But on this topic, special treatment is expected.

It then becomes a self fulfilling action. Poster enters thread making negative generalisation / accusation about posters, gets negative reaction and then claims their opinion is being rejected, ‘why can’t I post my negative opinion of you all here!!’ Whereas, their opinion on the topic has hardly been mentioned, people have reacted to what amounts to name calling and accusations that come from a very prejudiced opinion against people who disagree with that poster.

And then another inaccurate characterisation of the interaction goes around.

But it is all just a distraction from the fact that the questions cannot be answered because support of gender identity is not based on facts, scientifically or medically proven knowledge. It is based on emotional response.

I think the, ‘I’m not …phobic, but…’, trope has lost all its power due to misuse.

When everyone who questions anything is labelled ‘…phobic’, then the word loses power.

On this board I’ve seen posters claim FWR is homophobic for questioning surrogacy.
Transphobic for defending women’s rights.
Racist for not believing men can be women- yes, I know.

So unfortunately, that accusation no longer works.
I’m not a nazi, racist, homophobic transphobe just because I don’t agree with you on every issue. I mean you have every right to say that I am, but it just clarifies that you aren’t a reliable source.

Please report anything you feel is transphobic. Because nothing transphobic should be allowed to remain on the site.

And if the mods, who are generally very professional, don’t agree that it is transphobic then maybe you need to accept that your personal definition of what is transphobic is not representative of what the majority of society feels is a reasonable definition. Which is the standard reflected in the moderation of this board.

I love it when all these libfems jump in to denounce MN as transphobic whilst posting a load of transphobia themselves.