Mumsnet listed as Anti-Trans

[Hoosemover]

there a list of organisations and Mumsnet is on it. Along with the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

x.com/twisterfilm/status/1888255119449268674?s=61

Just to show the progression of a set of those tracked questions. :

Every two years more and more of the population of the UK understand exactly what it now means to allow any male to access female single sex provisions.

In the following questions a transgender woman is someone who was biologically male at birth, but now identifies as a woman. A transgender man is someone who was biologically female at birth, but now identifies as a man.

Do you think transgender women should or should not be allowed to…

Take part in women's sporting events?2018 in italics, 2022 in [brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 27 [16] 11% 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 16%
Should not be allowed 48 [61] 74% 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 26%
Don't know 25 [22] 15%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 10%

Use women's changing rooms? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 42 [34] 27%. 2018 - 2024* this is decrease by 15%
Should not be allowed 33 [43] 56%. 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 23%
Don't know 25 [23] 17%. 2018 - 2024 *this is decrease by 8%

Use women's toilets? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 46 [38] 33%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 13%
Should not be allowed 30 [41] 51%. 2018 - 2024* *this is increase by 20%
Don't know 23 [21] 16%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 7%

Use women's refuges? 2022 in brackets vs 2024
Should be allowed 47 [39] 31%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 16%
Should not be allowed 27 [36] 47%. 2018 - 2024 this is increase by 20%
Don't know 26 [25] 22%. 2018 - 2024 this is decrease by 4%

No question making it clear that when a male person has or has not had surgery was asked in 2018, but here is how this too has changed since 2020:

Do you think a transgender woman who has not had gender reassignment surgery should or should not be allowed to...
Use women's changing rooms? 2020 in italics, 2022 in [brackets] vs 2024
Should be allowed 26 [25] 20%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 6%
Should not be allowed 46 [48] 62%. 2020 - 2024* *this is increase by 16%
Don't know 28 [27] 18%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 10%

Use women's toilets?
Should be allowed 31 [29] 26%. 2020 - 2024* *this is decrease by 5%
Should not be allowed 41 [46] 58%. 2020 - 2024 this is increase by 17%
Don't know 27 [25] 16%. 2020 - 2024 this is decrease by 11%

Here is the data behind the 2018

d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Transgender_data_2018.pdf

2020

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Transgender_data_2020.pdf

2022

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/Internal_TransgenderIssues_220720_final_extraXbreak_FINAL.pdf

2024

https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/SexMatters_Gender_241219_ZMwbM2T.pdf

Here is the latest YouGov tracker information on whether people want gender neutral toilets or separate single sex toilets:

A new poll reveals that support for mixed-sex toilets is at its lowest level in five years.

Do you think public spaces should have separate toilets for men and women, gender neutral toilets, or both?

Separate toilets for men and women. 59%
Gender neutral toilets as well as separate toilets for men and women. 32%
Gender neutral toilets only. 5%
None of the above. 1%
Don't know. 3%

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/society/trackers/support-for-separate-toilets-for-men-and-women-and-gender-neutral-toilets-in-public-spaces

And Sex Matters commentary on it.

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/support-for-gender-neutral-toilets-falls/

It is a small minority of people actually believe that a male person can be a female person. It is a minority of people who believe that female people should not have access to female single sex spaces where all male people over about 8 years old are excluded. And it is minority of people who believe that any male people who have a body that has experienced any male puberty should be playing in female sports categories (this just reflects where the sporting bodies are headed with their policies and regulations at this time).

And it is also becoming clearer and clearer that a male who has had their testes removed is still a male and still should be excluded.

Sex is immutable though. And it is ideological thinking that people can change sex or that gender identities exist.

It doesn't matter how you word it, those fact remains.

The other things you mention, I don't see those terms used very often. Obviously you do on the threads you participate in.

But either way, the two lists are not really comparable. I am talking about accusations where those words are actually used to describe someone. The only 'accusation' you have mentioned could be said to be 'genderist'.

And comparing descriptor such as: hateful, anti trans, transphobic, bigoted lacks much symmetry (if any at all in my opinion) with 'genderist' which could be considered a neutral descriptor in comparison to the intent behind 'hateful, anti trans, transphobic, bigoted.'

'the GC' 🙄

Distract from that discordance by categorising anyone who disagrees, even slightly, as being hateful, anti trans, transphobic, bigoted... I mean, Upton had a list going that the judge wrote down yesterday. It is like a script.
And yet the GC are like a script too. The same words over and over. Sex is immutable, genderists, religious doctrine, ideology, overcoming socialisation to no be kind, gendered souls aren't real etc.

The difference between the first para and the second is very clear. The first is adhom attacks on the person. The second is terms of discussion, including concepts, not directed at a person or persons.

It's a very clear illustration, so thanks for laying out the paras side by side.

I know Arabella.

A poster complains about others while actively dehumanising the people they disagree with. And not acknowledging that the term 'Gender Critical' how many people use it is a meaningless term since activists detached it from the correct term which was 'Gender Critical Feminist'.

How is gender critical dehumanising but genderist isn't?

Have I missed where @darker has actually answered the question? What is a trans person? What is a woman? Or will we enter a circular explanation with word acrobatics similar to what Mr Upton did in his questioning from GC. IME, I state reality, then I'm called a bigot, without any actual discussion about the contrasting view - so @darker - can you answer these questions?

Apologies - NC not GC.

Because "genderist" is a noun for a human being, "critical" is an adjective, not a noun. It's dehumanising, like calling trans people "transgenders" which some people do.

"Gender critical people" - fine. If you prefer I'd be happy to use "gender identity believers" or similar.

The term used that was dehumanising was 'the GC'.

If we used the term 'the transes', we would rightly be deleted. Because that would be similarly dehumanising.

Detaching the humanising noun 'feminists' 'the GC' or even 'people, is dehumanising.

But I have noticed this is a commonality with some people who like to then classify others as being transphobic and anti-trans. They do have a tendency to dehumanise those who disagree with them.

Stick "ist" on the end and it's fine

Have I missed where @darker has actually answered the question? What is a trans person?

If you have I have too.

And that too.

The 'ist' is the humanising factor.

So by that argument calling someone a Christian or any term that doesn't have 'person' in it is dehumanising.

Do you see the difference between:

'the transes' and transgender people

and

'The GC' and Gender critical feminists or if you must gender critical people?

Does anyone object to 'socialist", 'communist", 'centrist', 'marxist'? Or for that matter "impressionist', 'trombonist', 'cellist', 'dentist', 'lyricist'?

the 'ist' is the humanising factor so not sure how they would object.

Indeed... sex realism doesn't imply gender critical belief.

Yes. The dropping of the feminist from the term gender critical was a deliberate shaming tactic by a group of activists who wanted to align feminists with other groups that are only similar in very broad outcome aims and not the motivating factors that drive those aims.

It rendered the term meaningless, and left a group of feminists without their chosen descriptor that only was applied to them. Sound familiar?

I think for some people surgery is the best option.

I won’t pretend to know what that feels like.

I think regardless of surgery therapy and support are incredibly important.

There definitely needs to be more support for people struggling with gender dysphoria. I think in general as a society most people could use support loving their body. ❤️

I think with all things we tend to notice the accusations launched at us more than the other side.

I get accusations from both so maybe that’s why I notice so much.

Trans people get called narcissists, delusional, freaks, waste of space.

I have only seen narcissist and delusional here to be fair.

I don’t think anyone is covered in glory when it comes to name calling.

'The GC' is very likely to mean something significantly different from 'gender critical feminist' nowadays.

To be clear a fundamental basis of the latter is the rejection of gender stereotypes. We were using this term before issues around trans people became a concern to many women. It's the ideology which gives rise to 'let toys be toys' and is entirely supportive of people being gender nonconforming.

I suspect a section of people now being (inaccurately) called 'the GC' are people who are 'critical of transgender activism and people' but are quite happy with the imposition various gender stereotypes! Such people aren't GC Feminists.

Of course I see the difference between the transes' and transgender people.

There is no difference between 'The GC' I.E The Gender Critics and genderists. Only people can be critics therefore it is not dehumanising.

I have only ever seen the posters here call themselves gender critical, or gender critics, I have never seen the term gender critical feminist used here. So I haven't taken the feminist away from you, it was dropped by yourselves.

Posts who are not gender critical are consistently called genderists or gender ideologists, why many of us do not like, so you have no moral high ground to object to being called cis or GC as the behaviour being complained about is pervasive form your side.

I have never seen the term gender critical feminist used here.

That's completely ridiculous.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4749315-motivations-for-gender-critical-feminists

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/2735902-I-want-to-join-a-gender-critical-feminist-group

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3337289-Witch-hunts-and-gender-critical-feminists

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4266911-New-Zealand-Gender-Critical-feminists