Mumsnet listed as Anti-Trans

[Hoosemover]

there a list of organisations and Mumsnet is on it. Along with the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

x.com/twisterfilm/status/1888255119449268674?s=61

Those views aren’t why I consider Mumsnet to be Anti trans.

I support those views.

And I think it’s important to acknowledge that there are trans people who agree with you.

I think though if you want to have open conversations it’s important to listen to different viewpoints.

I thought sharing my views and those of my trans partner would be welcome.

A lot of trans people object to these same issues.

And I think it’s important to acknowledge that there are trans people who agree with you.
I think though if you want to have open conversations it’s important to listen to different viewpoints.
I thought sharing my views and those of my trans partner would be welcome.
A lot of trans people object to these same issues.

I do agree with you here @Princessconsuelabananahammock9
As discussed on a different thread, I think it's actually really productive to get into it and see exactly where 'we' (different posters) agree and where we start to disagree.

There is still one group of people who use 'trans' to mean 'a person who recognises they are one sex but very much wish to be the other sex'. And others who say it's purely about inner gender identity and that is what makes them literally a man/woman.

Ultimately I'm interested in what qualities people like your partner associate with being male/female, how much they are affected by the rest of society acting differently towards them as male/female due to these associations, and various other things, but it doesn't seem very fair to discuss it without the person being here to put forward their point of view.

My partner would love to comment on this but admittedly I’m protective. Lol

It’s interesting because he has a masters in Women’s studies. He’s a staunch feminist.

I agree different groups have different definitions and unfortunately some people have really hurt the trans community with their own definition of trans.

No, services should not necessarily be "inclusive". Separate services run by members of a specific demographic for members of that demographic also provide support, arguably better than a service run by a board containing people who aren't in that demographic and deign to run female-only sessions on Tuesdays.

Southall Black Sisters are a fantastic real-life example of where a specific group of people (South Asian women) are best placed to understand the very specific needs of Black and Brown women in the UK.

There's absolutely nothing stopping trans people from setting up specific rape survivor support services that can cater for their specific needs. Men have done this and women have done this.

There's absolutely nothing stopping trans people from setting up specific rape survivor support services that can cater for their specific needs. Men have done this and women have done this.

Yes exactly. Just as a general point (not aimed at anyone specifically) if trans people had taken this approach from the start and campaigned for trans-focused services and facilities they would have found lots of people with past experience willing to help them.

But they didn't, they went for the takeover and forcing themselves into spaces and services. And now wonder why there is such fierce pushback.

I imagine there are lots of trans people who would prefer this approach, not least because it would serve their needs in a more focused and effective way. Unfortunately they have been drowned out by the activists.

Those views aren’t why I consider Mumsnet to be Anti trans.

They are part of the whole. You can't just decide whatever you agree with isn't "anti trans" and everyone else is on any sort of rational level.

Your views are why MN is considered transphobic and you were ok with putting the boot in to agree with it despite having a differing view to what constitutes transphobia.

Women have constantly asked for open discussion on trans issues where they conflict with women's rights and have been met with abuse and threats.

Maybe if you want an honest discussion it's not a good idea to lead with "MN is anti-trans" as the women on here quite rightly take exception to that - especially when it is followed up by the very opinions that are used to condemn MN as anti-trans in the first place.

Exactly. For years trans people have existed. Suddenly this became a hot topic and loud arrogant voices became the only ones heard.

I think it’s hard now for others to use their voices because they are seen as outliers by both sides.

It’s isolating for a large part of trans people who just lived their lives respectfully.

Sorry, replied to the wrong post.

"I thought sharing my views and those of my trans partner would be welcome."

Of course, you are welcome to share your views on MN. No one has said you are not.

However, I, personally, believe you have little moral ground to declare MN 'anti-trans' as you have done in the past.

The man today answered on why he couldn't use his own facility

This.^^

I have explained why I think Mumsnet is anti trans based on my experience being .

I don't this anything happened 'suddenly', perhaps some people only noticed it at a certain point, when it became impossible NOT to notice that laws, medicine, education, language, etc., were all being altered to cater for a very small number of people in society, in a way which had never been done for, for instance, disabled people.

So for some people, there was a sudden WTF is happening moment.

But many of us noticed things happening more slowly: the term 'transgender' replacing 'transsexual'; the rewriting of lesbian and gay history; the replacement of the word 'sex' by the word 'gender'; the unsolicited appearance of the T in LGBT; the unsolicited downplaying of the L in LGBT; the suspension of standards of medical ethics in certain areas; etc.

It's a pity the calm rational voices speaking scientific realities years were not listened to back then.

Maybe if you want an honest discussion it's not a good idea to lead with "MN is anti-trans" as the women on here quite rightly take exception to that - especially when it is followed up by the very opinions that are used to condemn MN as anti-trans in the first place.

Exactly.

"loud arrogant voices became the only ones heard."

Yes. I agree and I doubt many here would disagree. We know that there are people who have transgender identities who are out there actually campaigning for their needs that don't conflict with other group's (female people and children) needs. But they don't get heard.

As I said, I watched a thread where more than one male people with a transgender identity bullied one other (there might have even been two being bullied) because they disagreed. And this was quite a few years ago. It was not 'suddenly'.

have explained why I think Mumsnet is anti trans based on my experience being

As said, the reason TRAs think it is transphobic is as much your views as anyone else's. They think the "transmedicalism" you believe in is transphobia.

you cannot say they don't feel like a female person.

I can. Wishing you were something isn't the same as feeling like something.

When I experience phantom male genitals and the feeling of lead weights on my chest, when I daydream about how much easier and more comfortable my life would be if I wasn't worrying about sexual harassment every time I step outside my house, then I might, if I lacked any kind of insight into the difference between objective reality and subjectivity, mistake my daydreaming for knowing how it feels to be male and claim that I feel like a man.

But, I have this insight, and so I know that my idealised daydreaming of what it's like to be a man isn't the same as being born male and raised as a boy from birth. I can never have those experiences and the feelings that stem from them, so I cannot "feel like a man". I cannot know what it is like to be a man in order to compare it to being female. I can only know what it is like to be a woman with body dysmorphia related to my sex (and probably triggered by childhood sexual assault).

I asked earlier and someone said they couldn’t answer this question but I’ll ask again.

If you found out someone you knew was trans and you had no idea previous would you start referring to them as their biological sex?

Isn’t the choice of the word ‘ideology’ inherently anti-trans?

That’s fine!

I’m discussing why I think Mumsnet is anti trans.

Surely mn is pro women

It's not really our issue to resolve

Why can't the male sex class come up with solutions and support for all the people in it?

@Princessconsuelabananahammock9

I can't speak for anyone else but I have never met a trans person and not realised that they were Trans.
However, I have no issue with using someones preferred pronouns as a matter of politeness as long as I am made aware

In what context, exactly?