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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Imane Khelif not eligible to compete in boxing world championships 2025

322 replies

Lovelyview · 06/02/2025 22:33

https://boxingnewsonline.net/iba-confirms-stance-on-imane-khelif-ahead-of-womens-boxing-world-championships/

The IBA is sticking with its rules and Khelif failed its 'gender eligibility tests'. The writer of the article shows remarkably little concern with saying what a 'gender eligibility test' involves and that it shows Khelif is male.

Imane Khelif

IBA Confirms Stance On Imane Khelif Ahead Of Women’s Boxing World Championships

IMANE Khelif is not eligible to compete in the 2025 Women’s World Boxing Championships following her gold medal victory at the Paris 2024 Olympic Games.

https://boxingnewsonline.net/iba-confirms-stance-on-imane-khelif-ahead-of-womens-boxing-world-championships

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
ArabellaScott · 09/02/2025 18:54

DuesToTheDirt · 08/02/2025 15:40

Oh good grief, are people still claiming that Khelif is a woman?!

Astonishingly, yes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK539904/

Males with 5ARD are born with very small penises, or malformed genitals but they go through male puberty like any other male.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK539904

ArabellaScott · 09/02/2025 18:56

heathspeedwell · 08/02/2025 16:30

Men like Khelif and Caster Semenya, who have 46 XY 5ARD, are typically born with a small penis and undescended testicles. This means that at birth the may be mistaken for having a vulva. However they go through male puberty, at which point their voices break and the testosterone flooding their bodies means they develop a male physique. In fact a colloquial names for this DSD is 'penis at 12'.

Caster Semenya has misleadingly said in the press that he was brought up as a woman, but then in interviews he's also said that he never played with girls because 'they are soft'. He's also published a photo of himself as a teen wearing nothing but men's swimming trunks. This suggests that he knew he was male at least since puberty.

My personal opinion is that when your voice breaks and you never have periods it's a pretty big clue. I can understand that people who haven't been following the Olympics might think that Mumsnet are a load of meanies for being angry about men with 46 XY 5ARD competing in women's sports, but we're reserving our sympathy for the women who should have been given the medals.

At the Rio Olympics, all three medal winners in the women's 800m were men with 46 XY 5ARD.

I'm reserving my sympathies for the women punched in the face by men, and for all the women worldwide who were gaslit into thinking this was fair.

Medals, sure, it's unfair.

Watching MVAWG turned into an Olympic sport? That's fucking sick.

ArabellaScott · 09/02/2025 19:03

Sorry, heath, if that sounded angry. It wasn't directed at you!

eatfigs · 09/02/2025 19:18

SophieStrange · 08/02/2025 14:32

Without publishing the criteria or evidence.

Ask yourself why you are quite so enthusiastic to accept, indeed celebrate, an arbitrary decision made by the men of the IBA to opaque criteria without published evidence to support it.

The IBA did publish the criteria, in their Technical & Competition Rules.

Timeline is as follows:

9th February 2023 - no definition of women or men, no mention of any tests

25th March 2023 - women defined by XX chromosomes, men by XY chromosomes, and notes that boxers may be submitted to gender (sex) testing.

13th May 2023 - further clarification that women/female/girls are defined by XX chromosomes, and men/male/boys by XY chromosomes. Notes that boxers may submitted to gender (sex) testing and discusses the procedure for adverse results.

Given the timing of the 25th March 2023 policy document, being published one day after Khelif (and the other male boxer, Lin) was notified of disqualification for having an XY karyotype test result, it's clear this update was the IBA recording the procedure and definitions they'd decided upon to determine eligibility in the women's (and men's) category, after it had previously been left undefined.

Also the lab results were leaked to sports journalist Alan Abrahamson, which he details in these articles:

IBA letter to IOC, June 2023: Boxer's 'DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes'

Paris 2024 women's boxing stirs so much emotion - can facts take back the moment?

These report that blood samples supplied by Khelif (and Lin) revealed an XY karyotype.

WillIEverBeOk · 09/02/2025 20:21

SophieStrange · 08/02/2025 14:03

No evidence has ever been presented that Khelif is anything other than a naturally-born woman, nor that she is affected by any sort of chromosomal medical condition. It’s a curious thing to celebrate a woman being excluded from her sport simply for being born with a physique that advantages her in it.

Will we be forbidding tall people from basketball next?

You obviously missed that he failed two sex tests, @SophieStrange . That is public knowledge, and even acknowledged by the IOC themselves. And here is evidence from a French medical report that he has internal testes, no uterus, cervix or ovaries, and has a micropenis. https://www.francsjeux.com/en/short/A-medical-report-relaunches-the-Imane-Khelif-case/

Ingenieur · 09/02/2025 20:24

I'm sure @SophieStrange will be along any time now to acknowledge her misunderstanding of the facts

NotBadConsidering · 09/02/2025 20:31

For accuracy, I haven’t seen it confirmed that Francine Niyonsaba and Margaret Wambui are also both 5-ARD, only that they’re both male. They could have one of the other conditions.

Helleofabore · 09/02/2025 20:43

WillIEverBeOk · 09/02/2025 20:21

You obviously missed that he failed two sex tests, @SophieStrange . That is public knowledge, and even acknowledged by the IOC themselves. And here is evidence from a French medical report that he has internal testes, no uterus, cervix or ovaries, and has a micropenis. https://www.francsjeux.com/en/short/A-medical-report-relaunches-the-Imane-Khelif-case/

Here is the source of that leaked file.

lecorrespondant.net/imane-khelif-ni-ovaires-ni-uterus-mais-des-testicules/

How remarkable that it is still up on the site! I would have thought if it was falsified there would be some kind of immediate action that would have been taken. But it is still up and no sign of that supposed court action.

And of course, it all fits with what one of Khelif’s coaches stated during or just after the Olympics. The information is known, the IBA tests were legitimate and accurate.

arethereanyleftatall · 09/02/2025 21:09

What I don't get about @SophieStrange is this.
She could take the opportunity to learn on this subject, there's plenty of articles linked to etc on the subject on this thread. She could do it in secret, take time to process it, no one is watching. She could think about it, and ponder over why so so so many people think differently to her. She might even still come out thinking that the evidence supplied isn't good enough, and her original thoughts stand. But I doubt she'll even read any of it. Just dismiss it all with 'transphobes.' And pop up on another thread to say the same thing as here. Why? Why wouldn't you want to learn.

InWalksBarberalla · 09/02/2025 21:41

MarieDeGournay · 08/02/2025 14:23

I think it's a good idea to do some background research before saying things like this - there is ample evidence - from Khelif's own team - that he is not a woman.

I am somewhat sympathetic to Khelif because I believe that he was brought up as a girl and I believe it was a shock to him to find out that his chromosomes are not female chromosomes.

I also think he was such a national icon in Algeria that there was huge pressure on him to continue boxing as a woman, instead of giving him the caring and professional help he needed to adjust to the proof that he is not in fact a woman.

Ideally of course he should have said 'I'm not a woman? Really?? OK fair cop guv, I'll go back to poverty and obscurity in Algeria' but he didn't, and there were political and sporting structures around him encouraging him to refuse to accept his biological sex.

I'd feel sorry for him, but I think Algeria is treating him well, and I think he looked well cool in that Vogue fashion shoot, and I hope he forges a successful new occupation as a modelSmile
And never sets foot in a ring with a woman boxer again, ever.

I don't have sympathy for Khelif because I think it's quite clear that he and everyone around him has known he is a male since he was a teenager at least. There is plenty of evidence to show he isn't and hasn't been treated as a female in his own country for some time.

MarieDeGournay · 09/02/2025 22:29

InWalksBarberalla · 09/02/2025 21:41

I don't have sympathy for Khelif because I think it's quite clear that he and everyone around him has known he is a male since he was a teenager at least. There is plenty of evidence to show he isn't and hasn't been treated as a female in his own country for some time.

Au contraire, the Algerian media continues to treat Khelif as a national 'heroine' who was subjected to vile calumnies and harassment on social media.

And of course there's also Algeria's unfriendly neighbour, Morocco, who Algeria suspect is the source of this campaign of lies about Khelif's irrefutable femininity..

Khelif was appointed ambassadrice nationale de l’UNICEF en Algérie, alongside the ambassadeur, male footballer Ismaël Bennacer [ yes the name is familiar: Arsenal 2015-17]

The person wearing a suit and tie in the photo [interesting choice of outfit!] is Katarina Johansson, UNICEF rep in Algeria.

According to Algerian media, poor Khelif is now being victimised by Trump who won't let 'her' box in the next Olympics.

Note that his clothing is modest but not observant, which is not unusual in Algeria, and is obviously completely acceptable at formal national occasions such as this UNICEF one.

I'm trying to work out if Bennacer is significantly smaller than Khelif, or just far awayGrin

Imane Khelif not eligible to compete in boxing world championships 2025
Helleofabore · 09/02/2025 23:39

It does pay to remember that Khelif was talent scouted while playing football with teenaged boys while Khelif was about 15 or 16? In rural Algeria. Yet, apparently we are supposed to believe that Khelif didn't know what sex they were before the IBA testing was done.

ConstructionTime · 10/02/2025 00:56

@arethereanyleftatall

This is a possible explanation:
https://nitter.poast.org/JustineBateman/status/1888665734244446478#m

Apollo441 · 10/02/2025 01:31

Trump has only banned Trans athletes. Women like Khelif are welcome to complete.

Provided they pass a cheek swab sex test.

I'm sure Khelif is rushing to do one right now and clear up any misunderstanding. Or they could take this to the International Court of Sports Arbitration with the tests they have already done. I look forward to seeing Khalif defend thir Olympic title in 2028.

NotBadConsidering · 10/02/2025 06:53

Trump has only banned Trans athletes.

Trump hasn’t banned anyone from the 2028 Olympics. The relevant paragraphs read:

(c) The Secretary of State and the Secretary of Homeland Security shall review and adjust, as needed, policies permitting admission to the United States of males seeking to participate in women’s sports, and shall issue guidance with an objective of preventing such entry to the extent permitted by law, including pursuant to section 212(a)(6)(C)(i) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(6)(C)(i)).

(d) The Secretary of State shall use all appropriate and available measures to see that the International Olympic Committee amends the standards governing Olympic sporting events to promote fairness, safety, and the best interests of female athletes by ensuring that eligibility for participation in women’s sporting events is determined according to sex and not gender identity or testosterone reduction.

So this includes males who identify as trans and males with DSDs. They can enter the country and compete as long as they’re competing in the appropriate sex category.

As you say, I’m sure Khelif will be making it abundantly clear which sex category that is…

Glorybox2025 · 10/02/2025 06:58

SophieStrange · 08/02/2025 14:03

No evidence has ever been presented that Khelif is anything other than a naturally-born woman, nor that she is affected by any sort of chromosomal medical condition. It’s a curious thing to celebrate a woman being excluded from her sport simply for being born with a physique that advantages her in it.

Will we be forbidding tall people from basketball next?

The eligibility criteria is having two X chromosomes. Imane failed that test. Are you really so wilfully obtuse that you won't extrapolate the obvious conclusion which is that Imane has a Y chromosome and is therefore male? The most likely DSD given imane's physique is 5ARD meaning imane has testes that produce testosterone in the male range and benefitted from male puberty, a fact anyone with eyes can see?

arethereanyleftatall · 10/02/2025 08:20

ConstructionTime · 10/02/2025 00:56

@arethereanyleftatall

This is a possible explanation:
https://nitter.poast.org/JustineBateman/status/1888665734244446478#m

😂😂😂 love that!

CocoapuffPuff · 10/02/2025 08:42

If IK was genuinely female, that sex-test result would have been all over the media in flashing lights during the Olympics.

So why wasn't it? Why not lay the "rumour" to rest for once and for all?

I can't really think of any good reason, so can only presume that the result leaked (that IK and the Taiwanese athlete are genetically male) is genuine and that would be that. End of the Olympic dreams for both these males.

Of course, their being in the female categories ended multiple Olympic dreams for the female athletes that they displaced but hey, they're just women, who gives a feck, hey?

Thank you for allowing sunlight in, yet again, for those that missed the original scandal at the Olympics.

This isn't an issue where "be kind" works - these athletes were in the wrong category. Would you support IK, in his 20s and I expect his athletic prime, entering a boxing ring against a 12 year old boy? Why not?

Helleofabore · 10/02/2025 09:15

Remember here are some of the reasons that we have seen that the IBA is wrong:

They are Russians.

They didn't publish the results when legally they were directly prevented from doing so just before the press conference they called where they wanted to do just that - but apparently, they should have anyway.

That they don't know what they are doing - despite their medical advisor being a fertility specialist who would surely understand genetics and how to tell the difference between male and female, even those with DSDs.

heathspeedwell · 10/02/2025 10:28

This is an image of the three winners of the Rio 800m - Oliver Brown has been very clear in the Telegraph that all three are male. We know for a fact that Semenya has 46 XY 5ARD but I don't know if the other two males have had their exact DSD published.

They all have the wide shoulders, slim hips, completely flat chests and nuchal crests of men. Much like Khalif and Yu Ting.

Imane Khelif not eligible to compete in boxing world championships 2025
Helleofabore · 10/02/2025 13:54

Justme56 · 10/02/2025 13:46

Well I wonder now whether those test results will be forthcoming evidence.

All those posters who have resorted to 'why didn't the IBA release the evidence' may just get what they wanted.

TheEyesOfLucyJordon · 10/02/2025 14:38

SophieStrange · 08/02/2025 14:03

No evidence has ever been presented that Khelif is anything other than a naturally-born woman, nor that she is affected by any sort of chromosomal medical condition. It’s a curious thing to celebrate a woman being excluded from her sport simply for being born with a physique that advantages her in it.

Will we be forbidding tall people from basketball next?

Have a day off, FFS 😤

KilkennyCats · 10/02/2025 14:41

Helleofabore · 07/02/2025 05:31

Sadly, this is the same with Semenya and the rules media have to follow.

I doubt these male athletes will ever allow it any other way because it will demolish any reputation they have now and in the future.

Is it up to them whether we say what we see, or not?
I thought compelled speech was no longer compulsory?

fromorbit · 10/02/2025 16:24

Big News the IBA is suing the IOC.

Following Trump’s order on transgenders, IBA to take legal action against IOC for allowing Khelif and Lin to participate in Paris 2024

https://www.iba.sport/news/following-trumps-order-on-transgenders-iba-to-take-legal-action-against-ioc-for-allowing-khelif-and-lin-to-participate-in-paris-2024/
As a result, IBA is filing an official complaint with the Attorney General of Switzerland, Mr Stefan Blätter, regarding the IOC’s actions that facilitated the participation of these ineligible athletes in the 2024 Olympic boxing tournament in Paris. According to the Swiss law, any action or inaction that poses a safety risk to competition participants warrants investigation and may serve as grounds for criminal prosecution. In addition, similar complaints are to be filed with the Attorneys General of France and the USA.

Basically the IOC are screwed. This could be a game changer in saving women's sports worldwide too. Anyone fancy suing FIFA?

Following Trump’s order on transgenders, IBA to take legal action against IOC for allowing Khelif and Lin to participate in Paris 2024

International Boxing Association (IBA) prides itself on being the sole International Federation committed to safeguarding the rights of the athletes worldwide and upholding the integrity of female sports. The executive order of USA President Donald Tru...

https://www.iba.sport/news/following-trumps-order-on-transgenders-iba-to-take-legal-action-against-ioc-for-allowing-khelif-and-lin-to-participate-in-paris-2024