NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #5

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

It’s really poor drafting, the question is was it deliberate or just thinking sex and gender were interchangeable. It’s why the FWS judgement will be important.

I think some of Tervan twitter are joining in now with the donations which is lovely.

At least in Planning Law you can object to the application on various grounds.
Including loss of Privacy.

Again kindly traybake <presents peaking awards>

pearls (to clutch)

dinosaur outfit (for public events)

purple green and white scarf

a GC badge and dog whistle

<bows and walks backwards>

Welcome home.

I think if Dr Upton had a GRC he'd have made it known.

In the instance in which Sandie supposedly ignored him when relating how concerned she was about the child,wasn't she already in conversation with someone else. That person went snd found her, presumably said "wanted to ask about.." and they walked and talked to where Dr Upton was. By which time there was nothing else to say? "That kid's gone, should we worry?" "No I don't think so." End of.

Unless the other person said "please come and tell Dr Upton specifically and only Dr Upton", which would have been weird, what is the issue Was Sandie meant to start all over again addressing Dr Upton personally?

That's my reading of it too

He would have had notes available to him.

Probably about time Traybake was given her share of the Right Wing Millions, as well? We can't hog it all!

It's a weird world isn't it. We put so much effort into teaching our children about privacy and the 'pants' rules, yet once we are adult women, forget it. If a man wants to be in the same room as us whist we are undressing, changing, being examined etc, well that's fine as long as they identify as a woman.

Erm no that requires staying power

Yep - I'm seeing a lot of reposts with a lot of people wanting to show solidarity.

Tw often expect to use rooms where there are naked girls, they (the girls) are not supposed to look. It's rude 🤢

@WeeBisom at 19.25 you wrote:

"he has a feminine mental state' - can you kindly explain to the uninitiated what the fuck that is when it's at home?

I have one that is fucking furious at this entitled man, but yes please do explain.

Has anyone else had a problem accessing

mailto:[email protected]/?

My email won't recognise it. (Google)

So is that para 24 here: The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 ?

"Facilities for changing clothing

24.—(1) Suitable and sufficient facilities shall be provided for any person at work in the workplace to change clothing in all cases where—
(a)the person has to wear special clothing for the purpose of work; and
(b)the person can not, for reasons of health or propriety, be expected to change in another room.
(2) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (1), the facilities mentioned in that paragraph shall not be suitable unless they include separate facilities for, or separate use of facilities by, men and women where necessary for reasons of propriety and the facilities are easily accessible, of sufficient capacity and provided with seating"

But the thing is, if 'womanhood' is a state of mind, or 'someone who feels like a woman' then how does that work when a person has dementia? Or is in a coma? Or is asleep?

It just doesn't make sense.

Blimey, just caught up with today's happenings. Many thanks to all that contributed to the last thread. I know I wasn't seeing it in real time, but I was so angry reading about him! Can't imagine the number of fingers being waved at screens (I can't be the only one who flicks the v's off camera, right?).

I await tomorrow's cross by NC with interest. And a bit of frustration, as someone has put a meeting in! Hmph.

Thank you to everyone for doing a running commentary. I now need to go back to the other thread as I was only on page 2 when I last looked 😮
Hopefully someone has provided some form of subsistence

It's all sitting in my bank account currently. I'd hand it out but the banking app never seems to work for me. Here in the Bahamas. On my super yacht

That's a link. Maybe try putting just this into the address field of the email?
[email protected]

I think they were using sex and gender interchangeably.

I'm not sure this sort of fucking mess was envisaged when it was drafted

He expects everyone to address him personally at every opportunity doesn't he? Main Character Syndrome.

I think it will take a while to dawn on him that it's not going well tomorrow, then panic attack or feinting. I think he will show up because he won't have any awareness of what a creep he came across today with all him note taking, and he won't want to let His People down. But then reality will bite.

I hope they ask more about his note taking. Who else he took notes on, did he make notes of positive interactions, how many notes did he make in general and how long he spent doing it. I can't believe he only made notes about Sandie, there will have been others. We know other nurses waited outside as well, so they must have been noted too, and if not why not?

Had to work late and have just been catching up on all the threads since last night.

Thanks so much to everyone.

There were so many I wanted to react to (like, thanks, clapping hands etc) but I’m on the app, so can’t.

Working again tomorrow; very grateful (in anticipation) to those who might paint the scene tomorrow too.

It’s fucking bonkers!!

Thanks for the new thread, going to go and catch up now, I was only gone a few hours! And worse luck, I'm back to back with meetings all day tomorrow so I'll be up till midnight catching up then!