NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #5

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

I go for a snooze and there's a whole new thread!!

You snooze, you lose.

Did a cat sleeping on you send you off?

I'm not as bothered by the BBC article as I expected. As far as I can see it avoids including a single pronoun for the lovely doctor and clunkily 'Dr Upton' s him throughout. Turning tide?

As a woman I can think of so many reasons why another woman might not want to change in front of me that I would barely register the fact that she chose to use a single cubicle. I've had a miscarriage, endometrial bleeding at totally random times and perimenopausal flooding to name a few.

The fact that Dr Upton chose to write notes about the very first time that a woman chose not to undress near him just demonstrates a lack of female experience, a lack of female empathy and a total lack of female understanding.

Just donated to the page for her dad. I have rheumatoid arthritis, so a double win. I hope it gives the family some comfort.

Thank you @MarkWithaC for doing that and for the info from OP. BBC definitely biased in this area, the story about offensive tweets from Karla Sofia Gascon was not on their main website until yesterday, had been on their World site. And calling her actress, when it is usual now to say actor for women!

just joining this latest thread, thanks @nauticant

Also, if he only transitioned in 2022 ( saw that on Twitter), how can it be true when, told that he was a man, that he's never been spoken to like that before...?

I'm still puzzled on why he can have so many supporters behind him. I'm not particularly bothered as it makes him look weak and entitled compared to Sandie. It seems unfair though, why so close? I don't know what the rules are around tribunals. Seems an odd thing in a court of law.

I note from following these threads that he was the one, who on moving to this hospital declared that he had used women's changing rooms before with no problem. I wonder if whoever he talked to then was simply wrong footed, and didn't say, "no that's not acceptable here" in time? I am quite sure that NHS Fife didn't want it to blow up in the way that it has done.

But I am glad. I'm a long way from this hospital, but all women are vulnerable.

I am not so sure that is accurate my take was that she spoke to her line manager, had no feedback asked again and said manager shrugged it off so she said she would take it up with DU herself. And was not told not too.

I might be incorrect

It’s the first item on Reporting Scotland tonight, the insufferable prick

Unashamedly bookmarking for tomorrow.

Thank you for everyone’s posts during the day. I’ve not dialled into this one but the prospect of NC cross examining DrU has made me request access.

Just a couple of thoughts that sprang to mind reading the commentary on todays’ proceedings.

1. Do some trans women think feminine accessories such as dangly earrings act as some kind of perception filter, like Clark Kent’s spectacles?
2. Surely it is not a rare occurrence for anyone at some point in their working life to have had a barney at work and got over it enough to work as normal by the next day/shift? Not that the exchange in the changing room would meet my definition of a barney.

I’m sure my experience isn’t unique, but early in my career when I was a know it all rather enthusiastic, I was oblivious to the fact I was winding up my colleagues with my, er, enthusiasm. Luckily for me an older team member took me quietly aside and gently pointed out a few home truths at the end of the day. I was mortified in the proper sense of the word, and after a bit of crying at home I realised there was truth in what I’d been told. It took a few deep breaths to go back into work the next day, but I stopped being a berk and not a word was ever said again. I was still invited to coffee and lunch breaks as before, and nights out and even weddings. I count myself lucky that I had a wise and forgiving team who realised that I was ok really, just had a few corners that needed knocking off.

in my case I had absorbed my family’s pride at being “the clever one” and the first to go to university and thought I was more special than I really was, so I can see how it happens. But then I also had the capability for honesty and self-reflection. I suppose not everyone is so lucky.

To give you a sense of some of today's evidence @PaintDecisions, have a read of this post:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4?page=38&reply=141964369

If that link doesn't take you direclty to the post, it's the one at 16.59 by @KnottyAuty on that page.

Can anyone advise how you request access?

Have always just followed along on Mumsnet before but it's possible I can join tomorrow and am desperate to see Naomi in action.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

Name change here, thanks for the new thread.

That absolutely brilliant, thank you so much - a very useful post!!!

😁

Thanks for tribunal links. Reading up on SP sessions

Thanks @nauticant and everyone.

Among the myriad if frustrating in this case is the idea that he is seeking equal treatment.

Could you imagine a young female doctor getting much sympathy from male consultants if she said another woman had failed to look at her in the way she wanted in the changing rooms and she now needed to take them away from their duties to cry about it.

No woman would be able to do this because they'd be perceived as some sort of little girl upset about playground level issues. It would be tatties for her career.

Thank-you @nauticant and thank-you for curating all the threads.

The Scottish Daily Express article summarises today quite well: https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/transgender-doctor-describes-incident-female-34630702