NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #5

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

I think DU and NHS Fife would seek to spin a settlement at this stage as a necessary evil to protect DU from the indignity and unsafe situation of being cross questioned.

It would feed in to the 'marginalised' 'victimised' narrative.

@WFTCHTJ I didnt know that, I hope anyone who was unfortunate to see them is OK. Nasty horrible thing to do.

I'll be honest I'll be a bit pissed off if poor SP and her family had to go through cross examination and DU gets to settle and not be answerable. Bullying and cowardly.

Sorry if I missed it, but does the fact JR is representing both NHS Fife and Dr Upton mean that the NHS are paying his costs? Would thete have been a bill for working for each defendant, and more usually they would have had separate representation?
Who pays his costs / her compensation due on account of his actions if he loses? There would be differing costs for that too wouldn't there?

If they make an offer that is as much as, or more than, the tribunal would award and she rejects it, she may be held liable for their costs from now to the end of the case. Those could easily exceed any amount the tribunal awards her. And, of course, there is always the possibility that the tribunal might decide against her. If they make a good enough offer, she will be advised to settle.

NHS Fife appear to be covering all the costs

Can you settle half way through a tribunal? I'm not sure you can once it's started.

Years ago I took an ex employer to court for sex discrimination. ACAS asked both of us the day before if we would settle. I said yes (I had a strong case but was representing myself), they said no.

ACAS just wished me good luck and said they'd find out the decision afterwards.

I won with a unanimous vote :)

If Fife settle they’ll basically be admitting that SP didn’t harass Dr U and that they & Dr U are guilty of harassment on the basis of sex. I’d not expect that to happen - Dr U has come too far for him to agree to that.

Overnight it occurred to me that the NHS might see it money well spent to finally get legal clarity on this issue one way or the other. In the end it’s ambiguity in the law thats led to this.

I bet someone is monitoring social media and feeding back the commentary or general feeling found there - minute by minute.

So he felt safe enough to put SP through hell on this

And then withdraws at this point for settlement, if that's what's happening

Unbelievable

If they offer SP a suitable settlement I hope she does take it. She's been through hell, and is grieving her father. I would hope it would be a complete apology

There surely has to be a penalty for someone who is this direspectful towards the legal process?

Yes, you can. You can settle at any point prior to judgement.

Sorry - who do you think should be penalised? How have they been disrespectful towards the legal process?

Having worked in a quasi court environment, this delay could be for numerous reasons. The smallest things can put a complete spanner in the works.

Michael Foran says the delay is because they are waiting for an additional security guard?!

https://x.com/michaelpforan/status/1887823773551767641

That's a fucking funny looking puppy.

It would be interesting if he wanted to settle, but NHS Fife didn’t, or vice versa

Oh, I forgot, Rocket, they've disabled photo posts since the CSA images.

Hope you and pup are lovely and snuggly.

Oh ffs.

I don't know for employment law but

As a nurse my employer requires me to have professional insurance through a recognised body. If a complaint is made against me as an employee they would cover me for the proceedings through their legal team and insurances BUT it is a condition my employment to have a sufficient degree of insurance that they can seek to recoup all their costs etc from me afterwards.

Something similar may occur here

According to Foran there isn't ambiguity in the law. Stonewall and others have tried to claim there's ambiguity / that gender trumps sex, but that isn't true and there really isn't any ambiguity.

But lots of organisations have broken the law so.... court cases needed.

Just popped back. Amazed it hasn’t started yet. What’s occurring 👀

Who is the security guard for??

I wouldn't be surprised if one party or the other has had threats made to them. Maybe both.

Sod all, @Babadookinthewardrobe !