NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #5

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks. The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton started giving evidence on 6 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: https://nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268347-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-3

Thread 4: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5268942-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-4

To be fair, I have a hell of a masculine brow ridge and have been mistaken for my brother in photos like that.

The rest of me is fairly unmistakably female though.

Reckon I've got time to make tea & toast before this starts ...

I bet he’s sooo overwhelmed and traumatised by yesterday that he’ll be a no-show. Really hope I’m wrong.

https://alexander-herschell-bell.muchloved.com/

6k 🥳

From the POV of The Times, is itnot a compliment and appealing to their readers to be a Trump admirer?

I mean, he had to have two months off sick after a small woman pointed out he was a male in a female changing room.

£6000

❤

https://alexander-herschell-bell.muchloved.com/

Why does the coat of arms have a unicorn?

That's amazing!

Scotland's official national animal

Scotland's National Animal

I'm so sorry. Wishing your youngest a full recovery. I would hope the mental health team involved in her/his care would know that family crisis/preceding illness of the patient or a close relative can be precipitating factors. Sorry I don't know of any specific research into this but hope you can talk about it with the professionals treating your child.

That’s a tad unfortunate these days 🤣
The unicorn, like the rainbow, is no longer the mystical symbol it once was.

Great post that I've just caught up with.

NHS fife have no defence at all. It's a bit bizarre the strategy because you can argue Upton was deceived by the Trust about what is reasonable behaviour and the law but the Trust should know they're breaking the law on several fronts! So many people must be either brainwashed, delusional or so paralysed by the toxic workplace and fear of being suspended they won't point out the obvious for it to get here.

Thanks for the WFTCHTJ explanation.

Basically like my brain before my first morning cuppa.
Love that there’s so much outpouring of support for Sandie through her Dad’s memorial page.
The fact she’s going through this while grieving her Dad and she has carried on with her head held high, no need for mental health support or counselling, no dying swan act just highlights her strength compared to narcissistic MCS Dr U.

It kind of says it all really! 😁

@JasmineAllen that must have been so awful for your family. I hope everyone is in a better way now.

Sorry to hear what you are all going through. I hope that things get better and that you have support

My mother (85, sharp as a tack, Scottish) used to be a nurse and is generally inclined towards the view that nurses nowadays are always grumbling about nothing and the job was much more demanding and less well paid in her day. She has several oft-repeated tales of having dealt effectively with 1960s-style misogyny and doctors with wandering hands, and she's tying herself in knots trying to get her head round the fact that there is nothing Sandie Peggie could have done to avoid being in the situation she is in. I think this may be a conundrum for a lot of people. There's no room for, "Maybe she should have done this instead, and maybe she should have done that instead." Sandie Peggie was randomly in the firing line of someone obsessed with targeting her. She was meticulously professional, she tried to use the correct channels, and it must have taken a lot of courage for her to try to address the situation with Dr Upton face to face, but everything she did or didn't do would have been used against her.

I also have experience of being a female doctor in the NHS. The mollycoddling offered to Dr Upton bears no relationship to the way my peers and I were treated. At best, after we'd taken a dose of abuse from a patient or had a disagreement with a colleague we were booted back on to the front line and told to get on with it, and if we complained up the line about mistreatment the response would be, "Have a think about what YOU did to provoke the situation and how you could avoid doing the same thing in future." Which is not OK either, it's just such a contrast.

But unicorns aren’t real… Off to Google the history of the coat of arms. Wait, a lion? They don’t originate from Scotland. I’m confused. At least my coat of arms has two of our real, native animals. We do however eat both of them.

Explains why they are all so in to gender id.

Unfortunately the Times has also started to use emotive tactics in order to draw attention to articles, and in that they are falling into the new compulsory framing device - of everything having to be Left Versus Right, Evil Tories Versus virtuous Labour, The good guys versus the fascists and so on....Trump and Musk are the new hate figures of choice - bound to generate reaction.

Sadly no one has ever mentioned this phenomenon to me. I'm definitely going to look into it now though.
Camhs have been quite useless.

Oh come on peeps! Is this not just a sign that he wants to avoid his picture being on the internet forever and he is just aware that's what will happen. The internet is not kind and the consequences of having his name out there are pretty stark already. And anyway the sacrifices he has already made will potentially be a big step forward in resolving female only spaces - so whatever you think of his brow line, we may (all fingers crossed) come to thank him for his overly zealous note taking and trigger happy harrassment claim... it's almost a lose lose situation he finds himself in? Win the case and there will be animosity from 51% of the population regarding women's rights. Lose the case and on top of that animosity is the weight of disapproval and disappointment from "my people". Not a comfortable spot to be in

Truly this is the best of mumsnet. I'm reading all the comments with the donations and tearing up.

When we roll onto the new thread can the link be added in the opening post, please?