NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #3

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

I’ve only read reports about him registering himself as female with the GMC.

Does this mean this is the ONLY place he has registered as female, do we know?

I thought you weren't supposed to lie to the GMC and he didn't have a GRC when this happened.

Making the complaint that they were bullied by a colleague does in hindsight seem to have been a major miscalculation. If he’d not done that SP would maybe not have named them as a party in the tribunal and they’d have remained anonymous…. Oh dear

desiringtoremainsane · Today 15:42

Fifer waves back

What length is your spoon?

I think some are obsessed with the clothes. That's really what they are seeing when they look in the mirror. The clothes are "sexy woman clothes" therefore they are sexy women.
Maybe?

Agreed there’s something about the clothes - if I dress like a woman then I am a woman? Like we are all simply a function of what we wear. Or our clothes present an image of ourselves? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Can anyone share the link to log in to watch the hearing please?

@KnottyAuty you have to get your own link. Info bout how to do so is elsewhere on this thread.

Quite. But I'm wondering if the GMC are now offering "choose gender ID" on forms; you know, select one along with specialism etc, on your listing. With no other requirements than what you fancy being listed as...

But this, more than any other has shown that deep, nasty, misogynistic undercurrent. Reminded me so much of the way rape victims would be 'blamed' in court.

I have the same feeling.

But DP and I actually both wore jeans, trainers, a t shirt and a jumper today. Is he now a woman and I'm a man? Or are both both ? It's all so confusing 🤣

One thing I have been thinking about is how the women in the legal cases have changed. In the early days, the test cases were less about the strength of the case and more about the 'purity' of the victim.

Maya, Allison, Jo, Kathleen. These were all fiercely intelligent professional women that were impossible to paint as mere bigots. They have set the precedent so now the less 'pure' women perhaps with more complex motivations at play (I e. Most of the population), can hopefully benefit from the same justice.

To be clear I am not victim blaming here. I suspect I would have little in common with SP. But I would fiercely defend her right to not have to get undressed in from of a man.

The clothes are part of the - let’s say - allure of the whole performance

Sex Matters’ summary indicates he still very clearly looks male:

“Naomi Cunningham (who is chair of Sex Matters but is acting for Sandie Peggie in a private capacity as a barrister), representing Peggie, argued that Upton had no reasonable expectation of privacy on this matter because, Cunningham said, it is obvious in person that Upton is male, based on physical appearance and attributes such as height, hands, gait, hairline and Adam’s apple.”

No surprises there.
“But I’m Beth, Sandie! Don’t you run away from me; come back or I’ll get you done!”

Email

[email protected]

Ask for

Public Access Request (Mrs Peggie v Fife) 4104864/20/4

I do slightly wonder if the claimant's team actually have no expectation of winning the case against BU, and only included BU because it means BU has to turn up in person, thereby massively strengthening the case against the NHS.

Show the panel just who the women were being expected to change with. All the wishy washy about how did you know he was a man and what if you challenged a woman by accident is going to be shown up as the absurdity it is.

I work for the NHS and any challenge to the ideology would be very welcome.

I’m trying to stay hopeful that the right woman will win, but you may be right. (Depressing thought though, with a silver lining.)

Or, as we say in Fife, he's more likely to reek of pish.

Sorry.

It's helluva lang.

My late husband was from Aberdeenshire. He used to tell folk he was doing missionary work here.

When my OH last had a medical exam the male doctor pulled a curtain around so I, his wife, wouldnt see.

When I've had smear tests and coil fittings, the HCP has left the room or pulled a curtain between me and them whilst I remove my trousers and knickers, despite that same HCP getting eye-level with my vulva a few minutes later. They were trying to minimise the discomfort to me of the procedure and prevent me from feeling self-conscious or like I was doing a "strip tease".

A medic who expects people to make eye contact whilst getting changed is not fit to practice.

Even I know those are house shoes (aka slippers) and I've set foot in Scotland all of three times.

Apparently the vocab list was primarily for the use of carers with English as a Foreign Language. They might have been prepared for English speakers, but they werenae prepared fur Cowdenghelly or Kirkcaldyese.

I'd, in skim reading, just assumed it was another type of bread roll, as I live with a northerner who seeks to have 57 words for one.

@selffellatingouroborosofhate

I agree. We all know this, it’s true; the arousal in having power over us.

Everybody knows.

But does the judge know; does the panel…

True story.

Some years back I worked in a school which had an Eastern European teacher on exchange. She was shadowing my timetable.

One of my S3 girls to E.E. teacher: "Whaur dae ye come fae?"

Incomprehension.

The girl's friend stepped in. I was somewhat gratified to hear her saying "Dinnae be daft! She'll no understand that!"

She then turned to my E.E. colleague and intoned: "Whaur. Dae. Ye. Come. Fae?"