NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #3

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 January 2025 and is expected to continue for 2 weeks.

Access to view the hearing remotely can be obtained by sending an email request to [email protected] headed Public Access Request (Peggie v Fife Health Board) 4104864/2024 and requesting access.

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5186317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse

Thread 2: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5267591-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-thread-2

The hearing is being live tweeted by https://x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.is/xkSxy.

Well put @Swashbuckled i shall remember that

😊 Thanks

This is fascinating (sorry if it’s old news on here): https://sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Redacted-Peggie-Case-Management-Order-06.01.2025-1.pdf

pages 9 & 10
SP thought Dr Upton was a man when they first met and “chit chat” of colleagues confirmed other colleagues thought similar. In other words Dr Upton presented as male in form despite using a female name and pronouns. Dr U thinks of themselves as a woman and that their trans status was unknown to others.

I agree with SP and would feel the same as her about a biological male sharing a CR. But I do feel sorry for the Dr who had no idea of how they were perceived as male by everyone else despite their desire to be otherwise. Must be a very lonely place

NHS Fife has thoroughly messed this up and put both in a ghastly situation. Both deserve dignity and privacy. Sadly they’ll get neither.

But I do feel sorry for the Dr who had no idea of how they were perceived as male by everyone else despite their desire to be otherwise.

If he is so mentally unwell as to believe that I don't think he should be a doctor.

I've watched so many of these tribunals now, but there's something particularly nasty about this one. The questioning has been like watching an argument play out/be twisted on twitter. So much of the questioning seems irrelevant to the case at hand. It's been disturbing in a way some of the others haven't, let's face it some of the others were funny (although not for the participants) they were so mad.

But this, more than any other has shown that deep, nasty, misogynistic undercurrent. Reminded me so much of the way rape victims would be 'blamed' in court. Yesterday really upset me and made me so angry. And this is the NHS.

And I agree with everyone who's mentioned it being about class too. It so obviously is.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine as is the barrister representing him.

Burns seems apposite here!
“O wad some Power the giftie gie us to see oursels as ithers see us”

Thank-you for posting this @KnottyAuty

It's fascinating. Dr Upton seriously believes that they were catcalled, and that colleagues and patients all think they are a woman?

And the masses of info about poor Dr Upton's mental state, that they are mysteriously fit for work but possibly not fit for the tribunal. Absolutely nothing about the effect on Sandie.

It would also appear that Dr Upton's counsellor is doing them not good at all and just reinforcing their perception of misery.

I'm clueless about med school graduations, but would Fife have interviewed Dr before a transition?

Has anybody seen a photo of Upton? I’ve been casually searching the last few evenings; there’s tons of photos of Sandie Peggie, but I can’t find a single one of him?

Am I being incredibly thick about something here?

There's a few of him pre transition but nothing post transition that I've seen.

There are a few pre-transition with a fine beard and receding hair-line. Also posing as a hockey goalie just to give you an idea of physique.

@Signalbox

Thanks! I haven't even been able to find those (have been trying).

Have been searching Theodore Upton (and added various keywords) to no avail.

I am flummoxed 🤔🤣

Thanks so much to everyone posting, just caught up. Wow what a day!

My grandmother claimed you couldn't move for weeping probationer nurses in linen cupboards when she was training, it was the standard place to retreat to when shouted at.

@Madcats Dr Upton won't have been interviewed for their post in all likelihood. I suspect they were allocated there by the national matching programme for foundation jobs.

Interestingly they grew up in St Andrews (based on the school info) and then went to Dundee Uni. Lots of people have to move for foundation jobs and one of the reason you get to stay put is if you have extenuating circumstances - family stuff or mental health re common.

Wonder if that came into play.

One of the excellent students I supervised last year had to go to Northern Ireland from South East England for their foundation jobs and it was causing all sorts of chaos as they helped care for a disabled sibling.

Newtonian mechanics is 350 years old, yet still valid.

Do ANY actual biological women get turned on by the idea of being a woman? Nope.

Do ANY actual biological women get turned on by the idea of being a man? Yes, although rarely. Do they go around trying to force men to play along with that fetish? Nope.

Four photos that were on Twitter earlier this evening have disappeared but here's one still up: https://x.com/Miguel640283347/status/1886686726325739862

https://x.com/blablafishcakes/status/1886865018161111423

Upton might have wanted to keep his name out of the limelight for his future career, as well as the other reasons he gave.

I can't see all the information that's out there now will exactly encourage future interview panels to offer Dr Upton a job. I wouldn't, anyway.

Can we no longer add photos on here. The option to do so has disappeared.

@Shetlands

Thank you so much!!!!!

I had carried on searching but found nothing. (I am not on twitter, but browser kept coming up with zilch.)

I really appreciate this. Will be very interested to see the "Beth" version of him in news reports (assuming we will....)

😊

Not currently the site got hit overnight the other night with CSA images

https://nitter.poast.org/Maggie_Does/status/1881925068428837314#m

That one above didn’t work for me. Wonder why they are being removed. This is one that has been posted before - 3 photos. Amazing that there are none of this very obvious man (who the tribunal said wouldn’t necessarily be clocked as a man) in the mainstream media.