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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Defending Women from Gender Ideology Extremism and Restoring Biological Truth

1000 replies

IwantToRetire · 21/01/2025 18:51

Purpose.

Ideologues who deny the biological reality of sex have increasingly used legal and other socially coercive means to permit men to self-identify as women and gain access to intimate single-sex spaces and activities designed for women, from women’s domestic abuse shelters to women’s workplace showers. This is wrong. Efforts to eradicate the biological reality of sex fundamentally attack women by depriving them of their dignity, safety, and well-being. The erasure of sex in language and policy has a corrosive impact not just on women but on the validity of the entire American system. Basing Federal policy on truth is critical to scientific inquiry, public safety, morale, and trust in government itself.

This unhealthy road is paved by an ongoing and purposeful attack against the ordinary and longstanding use and understanding of biological and scientific terms, replacing the immutable biological reality of sex with an internal, fluid, and subjective sense of self unmoored from biological facts. Invalidating the true and biological category of “woman” improperly transforms laws and policies designed to protect sex-based opportunities into laws and policies that undermine them, replacing longstanding, cherished legal rights and values with an identity-based, inchoate social concept.

This will defend women’s rights and protect freedom of conscience by using clear and accurate language and policies that recognize women are biologically female, and men are biologically male.

Policy and Definitions.

The policy is to recognize two sexes, male and female. These sexes are not changeable and are grounded in fundamental and incontrovertible reality:

(a) “Sex” shall refer to an individual’s immutable biological classification as either male or female. “Sex” is not a synonym for and does not include the concept of “gender identity.”

(b) “Women” or “woman” and “girls” or “girl” shall mean adult and juvenile human females, respectively.

(c) “Men” or “man” and “boys” or “boy” shall mean adult and juvenile human males, respectively.

(d) “Female” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the large reproductive cell.

(e) “Male” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the small reproductive cell.

(f) “Gender ideology” replaces the biological category of sex with an ever-shifting concept of self-assessed gender identity, permitting the false claim that males can identify as and thus become women and vice versa, and requiring all institutions of society to regard this false claim as true. Gender ideology includes the idea that there is a vast spectrum of genders that are disconnected from one’s sex. Gender ideology is internally inconsistent, in that it diminishes sex as an identifiable or useful category but nevertheless maintains that it is possible for a person to be born in the wrong sexed body.

(g) “Gender identity” reflects a fully internal and subjective sense of self, disconnected from biological reality and sex and existing on an infinite continuum, that does not provide a meaningful basis for identification and cannot be recognized as a replacement for sex.

Recognizing Women Are Biologically Distinct From Men.

Full statement text at https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/defending-women-from-gender-ideology-extremism-and-restoring-biological-truth-to-the-federal-government/

Every news outlet is reporting this as anti trans legisliaton.

Not one has reported it is about women's rights.

That's why I started this thread, although there are others as hoping the search engines will pick it up.

Seems that women's rights are so unimportant to anyone, that even when there is a political statement about them, the media reports it is about something else.

Defending Women From Gender Ideology Extremism And Restoring Biological Truth To The Federal Government – The White House

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including section 7301 of title 5, United

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/defending-women-from-gender-ideology-extremism-and-restoring-biological-truth-to-the-federal-government/

OP posts:
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14
Lostcat · 27/01/2025 16:50

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 16:39

@Lostcat How about exposing their penis to an elderly woman with dementia, or a female survivor of male sexual abuse or a Muslim woman? Is that ok with you?

I think I have answered your questions here.

I disagree with your understanding of “sex”. I disagree with your understanding of being “trans”. I have clearly set out definitions of both.

I am totally ok with people being trans , and I believe that trans people should be allowed to live in the world, with dignity and in privacy. this includes being able to socially , legally and medically transition . I think it’s totally unacceptable to misgender or forcibly “out” a trans person. I believe that we should accommodate and include trans people in public spaces and without discrimination or forcibly outing or misgendering them. As for sports- I don’t believe that allowing trans people to compete in sports in alignment with the current rules in unfair.

However, I don’t think it’s acceptable for a trans person, or any other person, to expose their genitalia in front of another person in a manner that makes them uncomfortable. I accept that some of the discomfort a person may have around this exposure may come from prudery about different bodies and transphobia, however I believe that this is a legitimate personal boundary to hold. And I absolutely support any person’s right to hold it. I believe that we can manage to do this as a society without enacting anti-scientific legislation that denies the very existence and reality of trans and intersex people.

I am a feminist and I ardently support the rights of women and girls and oppose misogyny wherever it appears and in all its forms.

I hope and believe that this is clear.

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 16:53

It is not very clear because it is so contradictory! How can you square not allowing trans women to change with women with this:

I believe that trans people should be allowed to live in the world, with dignity and in privacy. this includes being able to socially , legally and medically transition

On what grounds would you justify it?

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 16:53

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 16:48

No Lostcat said they had 2 daughters.

I find it really unlikely that a woman with 2 daughters and such a deep understanding of trans people would be so ignorant of the 'penis in female space' problem. Lostcat is trolling - and this isn't the first thread they've done that on. They don't send their best, do they? Or maybe they do🤔

Helleofabore · 27/01/2025 16:53

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 27/01/2025 16:42

@Lostcat there's currently 2 different cases concerning female nurses being made to change with male trans women. There was the trans woman swimming judge who was walking through the female changing room with children changing (against policy and unnecessary), there was the wi spa incident. It is happening over and over again. Females need our sex based rights back

Oh no Baroness, It most certainly is not happening 'enough' for it to be a concern!

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 16:54

I am totally ok with people being trans , and I believe that trans people should be allowed to live in the world, with dignity and in privacy. this includes being able to socially , legally and medically transition . I think it’s totally unacceptable to misgender or forcibly “out” a trans person. I believe that we should accommodate and include trans people in public places and without discrimination or forcibly outing or misgendering them.

So in other words oppression that women have faced based on the reality of sexed bodies and presumptions about our reproductive capabilities through the ages is irrelevant to you.

This is men's rights activism.

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 16:54

Just wanted to add: I do not think it is prudish to not want to change in front of a male! This ridiculousness has to stop. Since when are women and girls meant to be open to stripping in front of male strangers? Bizarre.

DeanElderberry · 27/01/2025 16:55

'Cognitive sex' seems to be a very recent makey-uppy thing that can go in with that slightly though not much older makey-uppy thing 'gender' in the category of stuff I wouldn't want if it was being given away free with a packet of cornflakes.

Cognitive field botany, cognitive archaeological mindset, cognitive Trekkie, cognitive dog and cat lover, fine.

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 16:55

AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 16:53

I find it really unlikely that a woman with 2 daughters and such a deep understanding of trans people would be so ignorant of the 'penis in female space' problem. Lostcat is trolling - and this isn't the first thread they've done that on. They don't send their best, do they? Or maybe they do🤔

We can only go by what people say they are on here.

I hope that Lost cat doesn't have daughters because if your own family members doesn't understand the nature and reality of sex based oppression than god help you as a female.

Helleofabore · 27/01/2025 17:01

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 14:07

Please expand on what you mean by these statements

Cognitions are distinct from "feelings". You keep conflating the two.

Secondly it is widely recognised these days that the distinction between mental and physical process is far too simplistic- cognition has a physical basis in the brain, which itself of course is part of the entire system of the human body: https://cambridgecognition.com/what-is-cognition/. As I have repeatedly tried to say on this thread, it is very possible that transness has a biological basis/ underpinning.

And why this means that the needs of female bodied people who have faced oppression based on our female bodies (which will not include anyone with a male body no matter how they feel about themselves) shouldn't be recognised in law?
Straw man which bears no relation to anything I have contributed on this thread.

I have read this.

I don't believe that posters on this board have misunderstood what cognition relates to all. I suspect you have repeated a theory that you, personally, found to be plausible that really does not stack up to reality when analysed for logical strength as an explainer for a particular concept.

DeanElderberry · 27/01/2025 17:01

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 16:24

I think it’s totally fine (and necessary (!) ) to ask an adult person not to expose their penis to teenage girls. This is entirely compatible with respecting that person’s gender.
Obviously this trans person is “out” anyway if they are openly doing this, so the concern about outing them is irrelevant in this scenario .

So you think it's A okay for grown adult women to be forced to see the penises of strange men? That explains a lot. I do not consent to that. Particularly since I know what sort of men want to exhibit themselves and why they want it.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:03

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 16:54

I am totally ok with people being trans , and I believe that trans people should be allowed to live in the world, with dignity and in privacy. this includes being able to socially , legally and medically transition . I think it’s totally unacceptable to misgender or forcibly “out” a trans person. I believe that we should accommodate and include trans people in public places and without discrimination or forcibly outing or misgendering them.

So in other words oppression that women have faced based on the reality of sexed bodies and presumptions about our reproductive capabilities through the ages is irrelevant to you.

This is men's rights activism.

so in other words

Nope.
once again your words and meaning have absolutely nothing to do with my words and meaning

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:04

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 16:50

I think I have answered your questions here.

I disagree with your understanding of “sex”. I disagree with your understanding of being “trans”. I have clearly set out definitions of both.

I am totally ok with people being trans , and I believe that trans people should be allowed to live in the world, with dignity and in privacy. this includes being able to socially , legally and medically transition . I think it’s totally unacceptable to misgender or forcibly “out” a trans person. I believe that we should accommodate and include trans people in public spaces and without discrimination or forcibly outing or misgendering them. As for sports- I don’t believe that allowing trans people to compete in sports in alignment with the current rules in unfair.

However, I don’t think it’s acceptable for a trans person, or any other person, to expose their genitalia in front of another person in a manner that makes them uncomfortable. I accept that some of the discomfort a person may have around this exposure may come from prudery about different bodies and transphobia, however I believe that this is a legitimate personal boundary to hold. And I absolutely support any person’s right to hold it. I believe that we can manage to do this as a society without enacting anti-scientific legislation that denies the very existence and reality of trans and intersex people.

I am a feminist and I ardently support the rights of women and girls and oppose misogyny wherever it appears and in all its forms.

I hope and believe that this is clear.

Edited

@DeanElderberry please read the thread.

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 27/01/2025 17:05

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 16:55

We can only go by what people say they are on here.

I hope that Lost cat doesn't have daughters because if your own family members doesn't understand the nature and reality of sex based oppression than god help you as a female.

But were those daughters recognized as daughters when they were born. It would explain lostcat's view

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 17:06

@Lostcat

You said it is ok if it is just one trans woman stealing wins and opportunities from women. I do not agree but anyway, it is never just one. If you open the door to one, others will follow:
https://x.com/cathydevine56/status/1883850041888268720

x.com

https://x.com/cathydevine56/status/1883850041888268720

DeanElderberry · 27/01/2025 17:07

I have. it's a load of misogynist nonsense that has in the last few posts descended to suggesting that women who don't want to be flashed at or spied on (visually or aurally) feel that way because of 'prudery'.

And then you have a fit of the vapors any time anyone mentions erections.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:09

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 17:06

@Lostcat

You said it is ok if it is just one trans woman stealing wins and opportunities from women. I do not agree but anyway, it is never just one. If you open the door to one, others will follow:
https://x.com/cathydevine56/status/1883850041888268720

Edited

I don’t believe there is a solid scientific or ethical basis for claiming that the current rules surrounding the participation of trans and intersex people in sports are unfair.

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 17:09

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:03

so in other words

Nope.
once again your words and meaning have absolutely nothing to do with my words and meaning

Edited

How can you respect that women have faced oppression based on our sexed bodies and need spaces and sports away from all male sexed bodies to protect us from that oppression, at the same time as saying that you believe that

believe that trans people should be allowed to live in the world, with dignity and in privacy. this includes being able to socially , legally and medically transition .

The two needs can't both be met because as soon as you say to a male bodied person that they can socially be in a space reserved for women then your remove the protection that women have had through the ages based on the very individual nature of our sexed bodies which is something that is not shared by trans women even on the basis of your 'cognitive sex being female' theory.

You have not once in this thread tried to resolve this conundrum in a way which does not result in women being forced to lose spaces to our oppressor class which, to be clear, is every male bodied person regardless of their cognitive sex.

hihelenhi · 27/01/2025 17:10

Christ, is this STILL going?! Same old rubbish non-arguments and circularity?😆

Sometimes I think LostCat doesn't know what words mean. Like "straw man" for example.

Also "projection".

I've no doubt they imagine they're being very clever (nods sagely)

But as we know, identifying as something isn't being something. As has been amply demonstrated here.

Absolutely batshit. What a waste of time.

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 17:11

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:09

I don’t believe there is a solid scientific or ethical basis for claiming that the current rules surrounding the participation of trans and intersex people in sports are unfair.

So a male athlete who retires in his fifties because he is slowing down, transitions and competes with females half his age is just....what? Extremely talented?

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:11

DeanElderberry · 27/01/2025 17:07

I have. it's a load of misogynist nonsense that has in the last few posts descended to suggesting that women who don't want to be flashed at or spied on (visually or aurally) feel that way because of 'prudery'.

And then you have a fit of the vapors any time anyone mentions erections.

I think that was the first time anyone has mentioned erections so really you are just spitting vitriol for the sake of it.

If you read my posts then you would read that I said that- no I don’t believe it’s ok for any person to expose their genitals to another person without their consent and in a way that makes them uncomfortable . Teenager or adult.
So why ask the question?

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 17:12

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:09

I don’t believe there is a solid scientific or ethical basis for claiming that the current rules surrounding the participation of trans and intersex people in sports are unfair.

So fairness for women and girls like my daughter in sport doesn't matter to you.

Disgusting.

The only scientific evidence that is required for single sex sport for females is that a person is not male.

Solvable by a simple cheek swab.

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 17:13

hihelenhi · 27/01/2025 17:10

Christ, is this STILL going?! Same old rubbish non-arguments and circularity?😆

Sometimes I think LostCat doesn't know what words mean. Like "straw man" for example.

Also "projection".

I've no doubt they imagine they're being very clever (nods sagely)

But as we know, identifying as something isn't being something. As has been amply demonstrated here.

Absolutely batshit. What a waste of time.

I agree.

Lostcat can identify as what they like but they are an MRA who doesn't see women as fully human.

Same old nonsense.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 27/01/2025 17:13

DeanElderberry · 27/01/2025 17:01

So you think it's A okay for grown adult women to be forced to see the penises of strange men? That explains a lot. I do not consent to that. Particularly since I know what sort of men want to exhibit themselves and why they want it.

Indeed. So many red flags.

Along with the claim that single sex spaces are based on "a number of really problematic assumptions/ stereotypes/ prejudices" I see women and girls not wishing to strip naked in front of the Isla Bryson's of the world is now "prudery".

Worth a reminder that non-consensually watching or recording someone during a private act e.g.. someone coming out of their shower is known as voyeurism (or being a peeping tom).* *Indecent exposure is exposing one’s genitals to scare or upset another person usually in a public setting. This is commonly known as ‘flashing’"

Single sex spaces protect women and girls from the flashers and peeping toms of the world. Trying to wedge men into these spaces gives the flashers and peeping toms opportunities they've only been able to dream of until now.

hihelenhi · 27/01/2025 17:13

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:09

I don’t believe there is a solid scientific or ethical basis for claiming that the current rules surrounding the participation of trans and intersex people in sports are unfair.

Oh good grief.

🙄

No, I'm sure you don't. Ethics aren't your strong point. Bit like reality.

I'm out.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:14

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 17:12

So fairness for women and girls like my daughter in sport doesn't matter to you.

Disgusting.

The only scientific evidence that is required for single sex sport for females is that a person is not male.

Solvable by a simple cheek swab.

There have been all manner of disgusting things said on this thread.

Absolutely none have come from me.

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