Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Defending Women from Gender Ideology Extremism and Restoring Biological Truth

1000 replies

IwantToRetire · 21/01/2025 18:51

Purpose.

Ideologues who deny the biological reality of sex have increasingly used legal and other socially coercive means to permit men to self-identify as women and gain access to intimate single-sex spaces and activities designed for women, from women’s domestic abuse shelters to women’s workplace showers. This is wrong. Efforts to eradicate the biological reality of sex fundamentally attack women by depriving them of their dignity, safety, and well-being. The erasure of sex in language and policy has a corrosive impact not just on women but on the validity of the entire American system. Basing Federal policy on truth is critical to scientific inquiry, public safety, morale, and trust in government itself.

This unhealthy road is paved by an ongoing and purposeful attack against the ordinary and longstanding use and understanding of biological and scientific terms, replacing the immutable biological reality of sex with an internal, fluid, and subjective sense of self unmoored from biological facts. Invalidating the true and biological category of “woman” improperly transforms laws and policies designed to protect sex-based opportunities into laws and policies that undermine them, replacing longstanding, cherished legal rights and values with an identity-based, inchoate social concept.

This will defend women’s rights and protect freedom of conscience by using clear and accurate language and policies that recognize women are biologically female, and men are biologically male.

Policy and Definitions.

The policy is to recognize two sexes, male and female. These sexes are not changeable and are grounded in fundamental and incontrovertible reality:

(a) “Sex” shall refer to an individual’s immutable biological classification as either male or female. “Sex” is not a synonym for and does not include the concept of “gender identity.”

(b) “Women” or “woman” and “girls” or “girl” shall mean adult and juvenile human females, respectively.

(c) “Men” or “man” and “boys” or “boy” shall mean adult and juvenile human males, respectively.

(d) “Female” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the large reproductive cell.

(e) “Male” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the small reproductive cell.

(f) “Gender ideology” replaces the biological category of sex with an ever-shifting concept of self-assessed gender identity, permitting the false claim that males can identify as and thus become women and vice versa, and requiring all institutions of society to regard this false claim as true. Gender ideology includes the idea that there is a vast spectrum of genders that are disconnected from one’s sex. Gender ideology is internally inconsistent, in that it diminishes sex as an identifiable or useful category but nevertheless maintains that it is possible for a person to be born in the wrong sexed body.

(g) “Gender identity” reflects a fully internal and subjective sense of self, disconnected from biological reality and sex and existing on an infinite continuum, that does not provide a meaningful basis for identification and cannot be recognized as a replacement for sex.

Recognizing Women Are Biologically Distinct From Men.

Full statement text at https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/defending-women-from-gender-ideology-extremism-and-restoring-biological-truth-to-the-federal-government/

Every news outlet is reporting this as anti trans legisliaton.

Not one has reported it is about women's rights.

That's why I started this thread, although there are others as hoping the search engines will pick it up.

Seems that women's rights are so unimportant to anyone, that even when there is a political statement about them, the media reports it is about something else.

Defending Women From Gender Ideology Extremism And Restoring Biological Truth To The Federal Government – The White House

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including section 7301 of title 5, United

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/defending-women-from-gender-ideology-extremism-and-restoring-biological-truth-to-the-federal-government/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
AliceNutterWasAWoman · 27/01/2025 17:16

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:14

There have been all manner of disgusting things said on this thread.

Absolutely none have come from me.

Your whole ideology is disgusting.

DeanElderberry · 27/01/2025 17:16

So why ask the question?

Because you kept wanging on about men exposing their penises to teenage girls. You seemed fixated on the teenagers, not on women in general. Teenagers. You had to stress them for some reason, not the rest of us. it is actually quicker to type 'women' than 'teenage girls'.

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 17:17

@Lostcat Your beliefs are completely contradictory. You havent explained how it is possible to both respect that someone legally has a female gender identity and exclude said person from female spaces. I am all ears!

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 17:17

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:14

There have been all manner of disgusting things said on this thread.

Absolutely none have come from me.

I'm out too.

You don't see women and girls as fully human and you disregard our lived reality in preference of the feelings of males.

You have added nothing new to the discussion. But your posts have been very enlightening as to the depths of your disregards of the needs of females.

You don't seek equality at all, you're all about the men's rights.

Greyskybluesky · 27/01/2025 17:17

There have been all manner of truthful things said on this thread.
Absolutely none have come from you.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:19

DeanElderberry · 27/01/2025 17:16

So why ask the question?

Because you kept wanging on about men exposing their penises to teenage girls. You seemed fixated on the teenagers, not on women in general. Teenagers. You had to stress them for some reason, not the rest of us. it is actually quicker to type 'women' than 'teenage girls'.

Because the scenario presented to me specified teenagers. I didn’t invent the scenario . It was repeatedly put to me and demanded that I comment on it specifically. so I did. Then a wider question was asked about older women and Muslim women, so I answered that as well,
but you read the thread right? So you know this.

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 27/01/2025 17:20

It's very reminiscent of fingers in ears, eyes shut and singing lalala loudly to drown out the truth

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:20

lifeturnsonadime · 27/01/2025 17:17

I'm out too.

You don't see women and girls as fully human and you disregard our lived reality in preference of the feelings of males.

You have added nothing new to the discussion. But your posts have been very enlightening as to the depths of your disregards of the needs of females.

You don't seek equality at all, you're all about the men's rights.

Edited

I'm out too.

👍🏻

Chersfrozenface · 27/01/2025 17:22

Along with the claim that single sex spaces are based on "a number of really problematic assumptions/ stereotypes/ prejudices" I see women and girls not wishing to strip naked in front of the Isla Bryson's of the world is now "prudery".

A reminder that college-age girls actually did have to strip in front of Isla Bryson.

"A transgender woman convicted of raping two women while she was a man was enrolled on a college beauty course involving spray tan sessions while facing charges, it has emerged.

The Daily Record reported that Isla Bryson enrolled on a beauty therapy course at Ayrshire College’s Kilwinning campus in 2021, and former students claimed they often had to take their clothes off to act as models for demonstrations of spray-tanning and waxing."
Per Evening Standard
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/isla-bryson-transgender-rapist-prison-ayrshire-college-beauty-course-daily-record-b1056074.html

DeanElderberry · 27/01/2025 17:22

So you know this.

I know that you described women objecting to behavior defined as criminal (exhibitionism, voyeurism) as doing so because of 'prudery'. Why do you think those things are crimes?

Helleofabore · 27/01/2025 17:29

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:09

I don’t believe there is a solid scientific or ethical basis for claiming that the current rules surrounding the participation of trans and intersex people in sports are unfair.

And what would you consider robust enough evidence that is not already established that would be enough for you to change your mind?

And please include male people with DSDs in that answer too since you have mentioned them.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:29

DeanElderberry · 27/01/2025 17:22

So you know this.

I know that you described women objecting to behavior defined as criminal (exhibitionism, voyeurism) as doing so because of 'prudery'. Why do you think those things are crimes?

Again you are being manipulative.
It was put to me that it is transphobic to say that it’s ok for a woman to expose her vagina in an open women’s changing room , but not for a trans woman to expose her penis.
I acknowledge that in the context of that type of exposure - which is not suggested to be criminal- the double standard is arguably transphobic.
However, as above, I don’t think any person holds a right to expose their genitals in front of any other person in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable. In an open changing room or otherwise.

Furthermore, I do think that prudery around different body types is a huge part of social and cultural hang ups about all kinds of things related to sex, gender and bodies, including related to trans and intersex issues. And I think it’s both real and ok to say this.

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 27/01/2025 17:35

So we are just prudes because we want the safety and dignity of being away from male bodied persons when we are in a state of undress.

Do you have any understanding of why women want single sex spaces?

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 27/01/2025 17:38

And please stop the references to intersex. People with a dsd are still either male or female (besides dh keeps reading over my shoulder and rants every time he sees it)

RufustheFactuaIReindeer · 27/01/2025 17:39

I’d be more than happy to advocate for “third spaces” for transphobic people with xx chromosomes . But this idea never seems to go down well on these threads. I wonder why?

it would be the nasty way you’ve decided that anyone who needs a single sex space is transphobic…that would be the ‘not going down well’ bit

plus i am not sure how easily that would translate to a sign on the door 🧐 I’m guessing you would like ‘transphobic bigots’

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:43

RufustheFactuaIReindeer · 27/01/2025 17:39

I’d be more than happy to advocate for “third spaces” for transphobic people with xx chromosomes . But this idea never seems to go down well on these threads. I wonder why?

it would be the nasty way you’ve decided that anyone who needs a single sex space is transphobic…that would be the ‘not going down well’ bit

plus i am not sure how easily that would translate to a sign on the door 🧐 I’m guessing you would like ‘transphobic bigots’

the problem is that you and I have different understandings of single sex spaces. You think my understanding is nasty, and I unfortunately think the same of yours.

You can put whatever sign you want on the door. Indeed I can’t invent one for you as I’m entirely unclear how you want to define or police it.

I think it’s chromosomes that are most important though- is that right? Or sometimes people like to talk about the presence/ production of large gametes..?

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 17:45

the problem is that you and I have different understandings of single sex spaces.
Hang on a sec. You have already said that trans women should not be in womens changing rooms. Have you already changed your mind again?

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:46

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 27/01/2025 17:38

And please stop the references to intersex. People with a dsd are still either male or female (besides dh keeps reading over my shoulder and rants every time he sees it)

Nope sorry, with all the Trumpian style EO’s in the world, you can’t silence intersex people , or others talking about them, any more than you will silence trans people, or other people talking about them.

www.ohchr.org/en/stories/2024/04/big-victory-intersex-people-and-their-rights

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 27/01/2025 17:47

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 17:45

the problem is that you and I have different understandings of single sex spaces.
Hang on a sec. You have already said that trans women should not be in womens changing rooms. Have you already changed your mind again?

They do think they should be however they just don't think anyone should be fully undressing, tricky for swimming

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:47

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 17:45

the problem is that you and I have different understandings of single sex spaces.
Hang on a sec. You have already said that trans women should not be in womens changing rooms. Have you already changed your mind again?

Ohh another person who likes to declare I’ve said things I haven’t. I didn’t play this game with the last poster and I’m not going to play it with you.

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 27/01/2025 17:47

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:46

Nope sorry, with all the Trumpian style EO’s in the world, you can’t silence intersex people , or others talking about them, any more than you will silence trans people, or other people talking about them.

www.ohchr.org/en/stories/2024/04/big-victory-intersex-people-and-their-rights

My dh does have a dsd.

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:49

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 27/01/2025 17:47

My dh does have a dsd.

ok?

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 17:54

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:47

Ohh another person who likes to declare I’ve said things I haven’t. I didn’t play this game with the last poster and I’m not going to play it with you.

What you actually said with regard to a trans woman changing with women and girls:

Ok- I don’t think thats acceptable no.
It should be dealt with by management asking that person to change in a private space.
if there are no facilities at the leisure centre, then at home.

So yes, you did say that a trans woman should not be in the female changing room. You stop playing games. It is not my fault that your whole belief system is so shaky that people can easily poke holes in it.

Myalternate · 27/01/2025 17:54

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:49

ok?

He isn’t transgender I imagine

Lostcat · 27/01/2025 17:57

teentantrums · 27/01/2025 17:54

What you actually said with regard to a trans woman changing with women and girls:

Ok- I don’t think thats acceptable no.
It should be dealt with by management asking that person to change in a private space.
if there are no facilities at the leisure centre, then at home.

So yes, you did say that a trans woman should not be in the female changing room. You stop playing games. It is not my fault that your whole belief system is so shaky that people can easily poke holes in it.

I said that specific trans person should change somewhere privately if she is unable to change in the facilities available at that centre without exposing her penis to a group of teenage girls.

That doesn’t mean I think trans women at large should not be allowed to use women’s changing rooms. I don’t think this at all.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread