How many MNers will join me in applying for a GRC??

[QueenDoria]

having read on another thread that it only costs £5 to apply for a GRC, how many MNers will join me in applying to ‘become’ a man?
one’s legal status as a mother will not change, and I’m sure we’ll all see a 20% uplift in our wages…
We might get turned down if the panel gets an inkling we might be insincere, but, for the sake of a fiver, we could swamp the application process…
#legalfallacy

I see someone already answered my point about how TRAs want people to be forced into a same-sex marriage. And am happy with the current position on exiting a marriage before that happens.

You are horribly transphobic though. As we pointed out to Mx Apple: if we say we are men, anyone who is "kind" must accept that. GRC or not.

You may not identify as a TRA - that is your privilege - but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck we would be pretty daft to call it a kitten. Everything you have said up to now in support of trans people alligns you with the TRAs. But if you don't want to be called a TRA that is also fine.

But your other comments, the most recent ones, are very useful in highlighting the utter absurdity of the situation. On the one hand we must #BeKind and affirm someone's self-declared "gender". On the other hand we are not men to you, even if we affirm our own self-declared "gender" as man.

The completely serious point in all this is: since nobody at all is willing, or able, to tell us what "living like a man" entails, we have to guess. I look around at a lot of men i know and it seems to be: wear trousers, own power-tools and use them, have short hair. I do all of those as do many other pp here. I don't wear make up, i don't wear dresses and i don't cook or clean (ok i occasionally clean). I have in the past worked in jobs or industries where female people have been vastly outnumbered by men. Vastly. And because of this a lot of my friends are men. We share a lot of the same hobbies. On paper, i am literally "one of the boys" down to my personal preferences.

Why am i not of "male gender" because of this?

You're making yourself look silly .... said by someone who appears to think that it is biologically possible to change sex.

Popping out to put the bins out - back later.

Whilst my beautiful spouse cooks…

MORE EVIDENCE!!! 💪🏽

....only if spouse washes up as well😉

@QueenDoria

You should come in while he's cooking and put some cheffy touches in, stand behind him appraising it and then take credit at the end.

@QueenDoria i will only accept you as a man if you - from here on in, and all over the site not just here - start your posts with "man here..."
(and really, you should be KingDoria by now...)

[aside: in German the word for Queen is basically turning the word for King into the female form by adding the suffix "-in" in the same way, say, teacher (Lehrer) turns to Lehrerin. König - king. Königin - queen. Brilliant, eh? Saves so much time]

In a nutshell

Don't wanna make myself look silly or anything but I own 3 chainsaws, all the tools are mine, my OH does all the washing up and all the clothes washing and is currently making dinner.

So apparently I'm living as a man today.

Also my actual first name is male in certain countries so presumably I'd need 2 passports one for countries where my name is female and one where it is male.

i have dual nationality. One of the countries i am a citizen of doesn't have SelfID, the other does.

What happens if i change my gender in the one country, afaik the other country has to accept that i have legally changed my gender. Is that the same, then, as having an actual GRC everywhere? (I know there are probably countries that say: nope, bio sex is all that matters and pieces of paper issued elsewhere don't count. But the UK isn't one of them, right?)

Which means that anyone who qualifies for citizenship of AN Other country that allows SelfID alongside UK citizenship - can get a de facto GRC? Is that how it works? How does that work for my hypothetical British citizen only spouse? Would the spousal exit clause still apply? or are they stuffed? Or does it depend if i married in UK or the other country?

It depends on the country.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/gender-recognition-certificate-list-of-approved-countries-and-territories/gender-recognition-certificate-list-of-approved-countries-and-territories

'If you’ve had your gender previously recognised in one of the countries or territories in this list, you’re on the ‘overseas route’. This means you do not need to provide medical reports when applying for gender recognition in the UK.
If the country or territory is not on this list or you do not have a legal document showing your gender recognition, you’re on the ‘main route’ and must provide additional documents to apply.'

In fact, to be more precise it depends on the area you're from, as some states/territories are excluded from the 'approved' list.

Phrases like "half-assed", "never thought through", etc, spring to mind.

oh thank you. So that means if i change gender here, and then go to the UK, i need to apply for a GRC in the UK (if i want to live there)

That seems like a bit of a loophole, tbh. OTOH i don't know how it could be any different.

Also 'absurd'.

Certifying the impossible is a ridiculous idea.

I don't know how it would work. If you moved to the UK from one of the approved countries, having 'changed gender', you'd have your documents in that sex already. So why you'd need a GRC is unclear.

And I am a man who cooks. I do most of the cooking in our household. OK, that seems to be acceptable in today's society, but when I were a lad (with long hair, by the way, and a rather effeminate look to be honest) several decades ago, it was a very feminine thing to do; if there was a woman around to do it, she was expected to be the cook. So the things that make us feminine or masculine keep changing. Women with power tools were practically unheard of back then.

Oh come on, that's going a bit far! The evidence in our house is that washing up is neither a man's job nor a woman's job I'm afraid. I do wash up a pan just before using it sometimes.

OK, but I submit that loading, operating and unloading the dishwasher is def a man's job. It is a machine and, despite my physics degree, I couldn't possibly be expected to figure out how a machine works

My DP always rearranges it anyway when I load it.

Unless the physics degree makes me a man. Oh God, it's all so complicated😳

I'm fairly sure it does. My a level physics teacher told me girls shouldn't take physics as their lady brains weren't suitable for physics so having a physics degree definitely indicates man

Just asked ChatGPT, and after some initial confusion:

Ah, I see! You're looking for a letter for a Gender Recognition Certificate application, not for a job. Here’s a sample letter you can use when applying for a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) in the UK, which is typically requested to legally recognize and change your gender marker:
[Your Name]
[Your Address]
[City, State, Postcode]
[Email Address]
[Phone Number]
[Date]
The Gender Recognition Panel
HM Courts & Tribunals Service
[Address of the panel, if known]
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to formally apply for a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) to have my gender legally recognized and to amend my gender on official records. I am submitting the necessary documentation as required by the Gender Recognition Act of 2004, including the relevant forms and supporting evidence, to support my application.
I confirm that I have been living in my acquired gender for a sustained period and intend to continue doing so. I am applying because I seek to have my gender legally recognized in accordance with the law, which would provide me with the legal recognition and rights consistent with my true identity. I have included a statement confirming that I have lived in my acquired gender for at least two years and am now requesting that my gender identity be formally acknowledged in official records.
Please find attached the required evidence, including [list any supporting documents you are submitting, such as medical reports, a statutory declaration, or other forms of proof as required by the process].
I would be grateful if my application could be processed at your earliest convenience. Please let me know if you require any further documentation or information. I can be contacted at [email address or phone number] should you need any clarification.
Thank you for your attention to this matter. I look forward to your positive response and the confirmation of my application.
Yours faithfully,
[Your Name]
[Your Signature if sending a physical letter]
This template includes the basic components needed for an application. Make sure you check the latest guidelines for the Gender Recognition Certificate application and include all necessary forms and documents required by the specific process in your jurisdiction.

I'm glad AI has got its head around the nature of true identity.

Thought my DH might be surprised to find he is gay, but then remembered he is a primary school teacher and stayed at home for 5 years to bring up our small kids, so is obvs a woman

Fell at the first hurdle

"Dear Sir/Madam" Too binary