Trans remembrance flags and SNP renews support for LGBTYS

[WandsOut]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14226129/Trans-remembrance-flags-flown-public-buildings.html

What is going on here.
Why are they so determined to support LGBTYS and trans young people - who is driving this?

Now that I will hold my hands up to- I lazily used the phrase as it’s commonly used, rather than quoting Hamlet. Happy to accept you’re right on that one 😉

I don’t think you’re sinning, I just think you’re having a bit of a strop!

I have read the whole thread and al the stats.
What do you make of the stats showing that trans people are actually safer than non trans people?

I’m not sure what stats you’ve got that can reliably be interpreted though, when in the U.K. it’s up to individual police forces how they record violence against trans people?

As has also been pointed out upthread, Trans Day of Remembrance doesn’t just commemorate murder victims

That's moving the goalposts. It's about murder, not suicide, accidents or other incidents. Quite starkly the murders are mostly in Latin America.

Are you suggesting that you think that trans people are being murdered in the UK, the police aren't recording the victims as trans, and none of the victims' loved ones are talking about it in public?

ElleWoods15 · Today 16:22
...
I’ve been called anti semitic by a PP for suggesting that the Nazis targeted people for being trans. If we write that part out of history, gloss over it and pretend it didn’t happen, isn’t that marginalising trans people?...

While I didn't say it was antisemitic to say that the Nazis targeted people for being trans, I don't think that's my call, I did say it was anachronistic and ahistorical to use the teleport the term 'transgender', which is a recent invention, back to the 1930s and 40s.

'We write that part out of history, gloss over it and pretend it didn’t happen, isn’t that marginalising trans people',

What happened in the Nazi era it is not trans history, it didn't happen to trans people, so it's not 'glossing over' anything

To answer your question directly:
no, it is not marginalising 21st century trans people to state that the Nazis did not target people for being trans, it's just being historically accurate.

I find this rewriting of the Holocaust to feature trans people really offensive tbh.

@MissScarletInTheBallroom what I am saying is I don’t think anyone has a reliable dataset to be argue this point on.

And as I (and others) have also said a day of remembrance isn’t just about murder victims. Those who have died by suicide or from addiction for instance are also commemorated.

Honestly though, why do gender critical posters have to make things so toxic : ‘trans people can’t statistically prove that they suffer a higher murder rate so shouldn’t be allowed a day of remembrance’??

If you don’t want to commemorate it, fine don’t. But why do you feel the need to try and stop the trans community from commemorating it? Why does it affect you?

You are having a laugh right? Given that the Babylon send in the SAS anytime a trans person reports being looked at funny, any actual murders, GBH etc. would be all over the papers and the telly on a daily basis.

I wasn’t referring to you @MarieDeGournay.

I find rewriting current affairs to pretend trans people aren’t marginalised really offensive tbh.

Sorry if I’m missing obvious references, I literally don’t have a clue what you’re saying now.

Aren’t you pleased that trans people turn out to be so much safer than everyone else from being murdered? Surely you are pleased that the murder rate is so low? Obviously any murder is concerning and a tragedy for those involved but given the majority are due to involvement in the prostitution or drugs, it must be reassuring to know that as long as you avoid those you are actually very safe? Why don’t trans activists reassure trans people about their actual risk?

By what measure are they marginalised in the UK in 2025?

Yes I've noticed that on both occasions when I've posted, you haven't referred to me.
Debate is always welcome, so please do refer to me if you want to engage with my points.

What exactly do you think is wrong with the UK's murder records, that you think it isn't accurately recording the murders of trans people?

I honestly think it is really distasteful to ham up a very small number of deaths to make it sound like trans people are at increased risk of death from unnatural causes. Lumping murders in with suicides and drug overdoses is also problematic. We don't conflate these deaths in any other demographic to artificially inflate the body count.

Have you ever considered what it might be like for vulnerable trans people who don't understand how these statistics have been manipulated for political reasons, to think that their chances of living into their 40s must be incredibly slim because if they manage to avoid topping themselves someone else will probably do the job for them because everyone hates trans people? What an awful shadow to live under. And for no reason. Because it's not true.

Why not have a day celebrating the fact that trans people in the UK are so incredibly safe from just about everything except the side effects of the drugs they choose to take and the surgery they choose to have?

Honestly though, why do gender critical posters have to make things so toxic : ‘trans people can’t statistically prove that they suffer a higher murder rate so shouldn’t be allowed a day of remembrance’??

If you don’t want to commemorate it, fine don’t. But why do you feel the need to try and stop the trans community from commemorating it? Why does it affect you?

It's been explained several times over on this thread by different posters. It's constructing a false narrative that trans people are more likely to be murdered. That's what I and others object to. The hyperbole.

Why aren’t transactivists campaigning for psychotherapy and reducing the use of medical and surgical interventions to try and mimic the opposite sex given the increased suicide rate following these medical and surgical interventions?

Other men commit suicide in far larger numbers than men who identify as women. And so this is also constructing a false narrative.

I honestly think it is really distasteful to ham up a very small number of deaths to make it sound like trans people are at increased risk of death from unnatural causes. Lumping murders in with suicides and drug overdoses is also problematic. We don't conflate these deaths in any other demographic to artificially inflate the body count.

Have you ever considered what it might be like for vulnerable trans people who don't understand how these statistics have been manipulated for political reasons, to think that their chances of living into their 40s must be incredibly slim because if they manage to avoid topping themselves someone else will probably do the job for them because everyone hates trans people? What an awful shadow to live under. And for no reason. Because it's not true.

This.

Not true sadly - the suicide rate following surgical interventions is very high. Presumably because they realise that the promised land remains unobtainable. Pre-surgical interventions suicide rate is the same as for other men with the same comorbidities.

As you may have gathered from my posts, I like to use words and concepts as accurately as I can, and wish others would too, so I think this definition of 'marginalisation' is useful.

the concept of marginalization refers to the systematic exclusion or sidelining of specific groups or individuals from political representation, decision-making processes, and access to resources and rights.
Marginalization Meaning & Definition | GoodParty.org

Although 'who is most marginalised?' should not be a competition, there are real differences in how, and to what extent, different groups experience marginalisation in our society, and it's useful to have a definition as a point of reference to identify those differences.

Based on that definition I'd say trans people are one of the least marginalised groups of people in the UK. They have hugely disproportionate political power compared to their numbers.

There’s a really good post at 18.42 yesterday by @suggestionsplease1^^

There isn't a "really good post" that I've seen at 18.42 yesterday by that poster, or at any other time.