Trans remembrance flags and SNP renews support for LGBTYS

[WandsOut]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14226129/Trans-remembrance-flags-flown-public-buildings.html

What is going on here.
Why are they so determined to support LGBTYS and trans young people - who is driving this?

But it does happen during pride month with rainbow/progress flags? and there is also usually an official response during other special "days" (black history, holocaust memorial, int day of the child, etc) for groups who dont have flags that are so recognisably associated with them so flying a flag would be inappropriate?

This isnt a pile on, im not trying to put words in anyones mouth! i just dont see the issue with this particular decision

And i suspect that one murder involved an intimate partner...and was not a random street attack.

You can create a 'community' out of any shared characteristic. Why not have a community of those whose homes have been destroyed by flooding; or perhaps one for men over the age of 60 with autism; or one for business owners whose businesses were destroyed by the lockdown?

Each group can have a flag and a motto - to really solidify their group identity.....and then they can each demand additional funding from the government to deal with their particular disadvantage; plus maybe better representation in films and TV and more favourable treatment by the mainstream media - resulting in their unique special needs being recognised and validated. New laws could be created to punish anyone who makes light of their particular suffering......

"Party supports LGBT+ people and rights"

What do you want, a return to section 28 when even mentioning the topic was forbidden at schools?

Nobody condones murder, and all violent deaths are tragedies to the loved ones of the deceased. So SparklyTurtle's
'Wow, an open admission that people here don't care about violence against transgender people because people speak up against transphobia.'
is unsubstantiated.

The issue is the flying of a flag on public buildings to commemorate a group or event. The range of permitted flags is restricted by planning regulations, as a PP pointed out.

I'm not a UK subject, so it's not my call, but I'd be quite happy for The Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007 to be enforced strictly. So no pride, progress or trans flags on public buildings full stop.

But according to SparklyTurtle
Civilised nations have been flying flags, remembering people of oppressed groups and standing against discrimination for years. Why should the transgender people murdered for being transgender be any different?
and seems to be answering that question with 'because, wow, transphobia'.

Here are three more realistic answers :

1. transgender people are not an oppressed group in Scotland.
2. transgender people are not officially discriminated against in Scotland.
3. there have been no recorded cases of people being murdered for being transgender in Scotland.

OK, so you are lumping celebrations (pride, black history , etc) in with memorials?

Can you see that even in this conversation we have an issue, which is defining what, exactly, we are talking about and why.

The issue was that some people believe, myself included, that there is no need for a public memorial to something that didn't happen.

I can't believe you're now suggesting that because holocaust Memorial day is remembered by some organisations, we should remember the trans non genocide?

Can you not see that by conflating the two, you yourself are giving credence to the false 'trans genocide' narrative?

Dear God it's like pulling teeth. Don't they teach critical thinking in schools these days?

This, with bells on!

Where are you quoting from?

Christinapple · Today 11:14

What do you want, a return to section 28 when even mentioning the topic was forbidden at schools?

Mention of homosexuality wasn't forbidden. It was covered on more than one occasion, when I was at high school, during the 80s.

The SNP can pay lip service to the alphabet soup all they want, but we all know how most same-sex attracted people and women who question the Gender Identity Cult are treated.

Yes we can there has be zero recorded murders of transgender persons in Scotland since records began

This doesn't reflect what teaching was actually like in the 90s. I was never prevented from teaching about homophobia, for example.

Every single 1 of those deaths can be named and their place of death is recorded none were in Scotland. Oh and we do keep records of trans murders in Scotland as was admitted in the Scottish Parliament by the then justice secretary humza yousef. So please stop trying to twist facts to paint a false narrative of trans murders in Scotland when none have ever occurred. Trans people are the only group never to have been murdered in Scotland and as such are the safest and have no right to a flag being flown or a day of remembrance but women and children do

Not at all true. Maybe you'll read what Peter Tatchell had to say in 1998: www.petertatchell.net/lgbt_rights/section28/hype/

Yes, section 28 was absolutely homophobic but the topic was never forbidden in schools.

It was the "promotion" which was forbidden, not any mention.

If I remember correctly at least two were murdered by transgender partners, others were murdered for drug debts. None due to ‘transphobia’.

Just to repeat but in a different way what I said at the start of this thread.

Why is Scotland, or any where else deciding that trans issues are important when (as many have suggested) there are any number of communities who dont get the recognition.

And in the instance of women, has anyone seen any council, government or whatever fly a flag of rememberance for women on the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. Women are killed in their homes, when walking down roads to get home, and are the first victims in areas of war and famine.

That is what this is about.

What sort of statement does that say to the community as a whole. That only some violent deaths are important.

And, as said earlier, what message is Scotland thinking it is sending by promoting one group above all others.

It is ridiculous and insulting.

Just to add to this

Is there any actual evidence of trans people being a marginalised group?

When you see footage of Trans people marching there is rarely any group of people vocally abusing them, yet when you look at let women speak you can see actual violence and abuse being hurled at the speakers.

The same goes for toilets, is there any evidence that they are unsafe in men's toilets or is it just feels?
There is a lot of evidence that women are not as safe from trans women as some would have us believe with some trans women attacking women in toilets and plenty of YouTube videos by the trans lobby threatening people with violence if they are prevented from using women's toilets.

But we are just supposed to ignore this?

What topic? Homosexuality?

Like telling lesbians they're sexual racists for being homosexual?

Oh no, wait, that's genderists, not LGB people.

Kicked off Tinder for saying she's not interested in men, even if those men claim to be lesbians

That homophobia?

Sec 28 was a very clever piece of rhetoric.

It's worth queer activists remembering, when they try to make reality all about language in politics and law, that conservatives have proven better at that than progressives.

i don't think i ever described a trans genocide or even alluded to it, that's a very unfair suggestion. i just said there was precedent for govt action (including flags on building) for other global days of remembrance/advocacy for other communities.

its hard enough to talk about this because of the strength of feeling on all sides of the discussion, we shouldn't make it harder by misrepresenting what has been said.

i don't think i ever described a trans genocide or even alluded to it, that's a very unfair suggestion. i just said there was precedent for govt action (including flags on building) for other global days of remembrance/advocacy for other communities.

Where there is actually something coherent and significant to commemorate. There is no reason for the whole country to observe a "day of remembrance" for the non existent trans murder epidemic. And including suicide as well is moving the goalposts. It's agenda-pushing, and it's used to create a false narrative.

@sadmillenial I appreciate you trying to bridge the gap in understanding.

But there really is such a gap. I've done my darndest to understand where queer / trans rights people are coming from but I fear it may be an unbridgeable gap.
I was thinking about your posts, really trying to make a fair equivalence in my mind between these trans rememberance flags and flags that might commemorate something close to my heart.
It lead me to think about a friend, who lost his mum when she was killed by his step dad.

If some local council "commemorated" this (and other, similar) awful murder by flying a shiny (♀) flag or something I rekon I'd be furious.
Absolutely furious.
I'd want to rip it down and force them to spend ten times the money it cost on a women's shelter, on DV training for cops and other service providers, on self esteem classes for teenage girls, anything other than posturing, trivialising, flag waving bullshit.
So, the question OP asked remains: What is going on here?

Its a global day, for the global trans community - its not UK or Scotland specific!

there is very well documented violence and discrimination against the trans community globally, and I don't think its unreasonable that trans people in Europe would want to act in solidarity with people around the world?

For example/illustration (before anyone falsely says I am saying these are a "like for like" )...
We mark world AIDS day in so many different and visible ways in the UK, because while the lived experience in the UK is now very much changed for the better this isn't the case for the vast majority of people around the world who dont have access to PEP/PreP or antivirals. Similarly with LGBTQ+ Pride, while the month might be celebratory in tone for a lot of the community, it is a global event and you will see people working hard to advocate for people outside of the UK

I just don't see how this is giving the trans community "special treatment", if anything its giving exactly the same as other communities who have globally designated days?