Trans remembrance flags and SNP renews support for LGBTYS

[WandsOut]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14226129/Trans-remembrance-flags-flown-public-buildings.html

What is going on here.
Why are they so determined to support LGBTYS and trans young people - who is driving this?

I think you're missing the point.

An ideology which demands male rapists go into female prisons, decimates women's sports, legitimising the crimes of voyeurism and indecent exposure in their changing rooms and has closed down every female only rape crisis centre, isn't something people think should be celebrated by flag-waving.

LGBTQIA++ already includes trans people. Why does the T need an extra day?

great point - i think probably because some gay/lesbian/bisexual people don't advocate for the trans community and there is a divide within the community because of this in some instances (not the entire community, there's still a lot of solidarity)

might also be worth pondering why we have LGBTQ pride month but there is also a separate Lesbian visibility day? historical erasure of lesbians from gay civil rights movements also led to the creation of this day, and i fully support it.

There's a long thread going at the moment, I've not followed it closely, but it seems that there's a march proposed protesting VAWAG. It seems to be turning into a shitshow because women who want to make it about 'women and girls' are getting blocked, abused, threatened and called bigots. Even a compromise, allowing tras their own section of the march, isn't good enough for them.

Erasure of lesbians is still happening, the LGBTQ+ community shuns and threatens the lesbians who aren't prepared to do dick. Anyone with their head screwed on would say that surely no lesbian does dick, that's what a lesbian is but the so called community calls this transphobic. In this new, enlightened age lesbians are to enthusiastically include males in their sexuality if said male says he's a woman. Lesbians who disagree are threatened with rape by those lovely, vulnerable transwomen.

Does the poor chap in Brighton who had been transgender but had detransitioned who seems to have been murdered by his MTF partner count as a transgender ‘victim’?
Or does he not count because he had returned to identifying as his natal sex?

There really is no 'global community', though. It, like most of the others, is purely a western construct created to push certain post modernistic narratives around identity and oppression. And it has been exported and foisted upon societies and communities to which it is alien.

'Hijra' in India and 'Ladyboys' in Thailand, for example, represent ways for those societies, in which homosexuality is unacceptable, to create space for gender non-conforming gay men to express themselves, and a way for men to have liasons with other men in a culturally contained way.

He probably doesn't count because his murderer was trans and the TRA won't want to draw attention to it. In fact, have there been more murders BY trans people in the UK than murders OF trans people, I wonder? Is there a flag for that?

So much forced teaming going on. Plenty of gay men and lesbians do not recognise a LGBTQ 'community' - for the reason 'community' tends to imply shared values and goals and also tends to imply everyone in that community shares in and re-tells the same narrative or even votes in the same way.
A bit like Barack Obama telling black men that they were not really black if they didn't want to vote For Kamala Harris.

The only thing that LGB people all have in common is their sexual orientation; in the same way the only thing that all women have in common is their biological sex.

Having seen your further posts, I can appreciate that you're trying to engage in good faith, which is unusual here for posters sharing your views.

However, you don't seem to be giving a lot of thought to what you're posting, which means your posts essentially come across as 'why can't you all just be kind'. We've seen where be kind gets us, and we've had enough of it.

I'm not trying to play linguistic point scoring with you, but I do want to clarify my point above because you seem to have missed it again: I didn't say that you, specifically, alluded to or described a trans genocide. I said that by commemorating something that doesnt happen, ie trans murder in Scotland, you were lending credence to the trans genocide narrative. A narrative which is being used to dismantle women's rights.

You're right that these discussions are difficult to have, and because of that, nuance is important.

I note that in the face of the evidence, you've changed your position from 'trans people have been murdered in Scotland, you can't say they haven't', to 'it's an international day of remembrance that Scotland should support' - which is a different argument. Kudos for taking the facts on board - when presented with inconvenient facts lots of people try to ignore them!

However. I still find it inappropriate that a public building is using public money to support this day, even though it's an international day, when many more days which are relevant to the local demographic are not supported. It's giving an importance to the day that it does not deserve to be shown by that public body (disclaimer- I'm not saying that any murders are unimportant or deserve to be ignored, we're talking specifically about the context, not the subject itself) and its indirectly supporting the dismantling of women's rights for reasons explained above.

I have just finished reading the excellent book 'The women who wouldn't wheesht' (Christmas present from the husband) and I recommend it as a study of how insular and biased the Scottish political establishment has become. To me, the flying of this flag is symptomatic of that phenomenon.

In a subsequent comment, you also noted that you believe trans people get additional celebration and remembrance days on top of the LGBT ones because:
i think probably because some gay/lesbian/bisexual people don't advocate for the trans community and there is a divide

Maybe consider why some LGB people, like some straight women, don't see it as their business to advocate for a community (nb yes not all individual trans people) that is actively harming them and their cause?

Edit for typo

Could you please tell us when the world aids day flag will be flown in Scotland and on which public buildings. Also can you assure us that it's the AIDs flag and not a pride or progress pride flag being flown.
Could you also point out which other communities that have globally designated days have a flag flown from Scottish government buildings, because the only 1s I know of are the lgbtq+ 1s funnily enough.

I don't think it was unfair. In your previous post you were defending the commemoration of this thing that never happens by comparing, first, Pride Month flags, then... "and there is also usually an official response during other special "days" (black history, holocaust memorial, int day of the child, etc) "

You are clearly equating Trans Day of Remembrance, which remembers no deaths that anyone on this thread can think of (including you?) other than in South American prostitution, with the Holocaust Memorials and others. FFS

I have not seen flags for any world AIDS day set up on government buildings. I could have missed them. Also I included your own words so do not think I have misrepresented what you have said, but please do clarify.

I just don't see how this is giving the trans community "special treatment", if anything it's giving exactly the same as other communities who have globally designated days?

Im not sure why you're avoiding the point that all this sombre "remembrance" is being used to construct a false narrative.

Which other globally designated days @sadmillenial ? When are they, what proof to do you have that those days are specifically highlighted by the Scottish Government or any other public authority in the UK? What flags are flown for them?

Yes, that's the key point.

Sadmillenial, why are you sad?

Is it because you force yourself to believe a pack of lies?

this is a bit unnecessary isnt it?
my username is a quote from a tv show lol, im not actually sad
are you actually a mixed up weetabix??

there isn't a world AIDS day flag, instead you will see politicians wearing red ribbons.

That was the point i was trying to make - the LGBTQ community has adopted flags (really properly adopted them - there are bloomin millions of them!) which is why, i think, the day is marked with the flag flying. Not because it wouldn't be appropriate for other groups, but because other groups have different symbols.
other days and other causes are marked in different ways.

I would be very surprised if none of the Scottish MPs were wearing red ribbons on 1st Dec?

Some usernames do state reality tho <cough>

Not a dig btw, just true :)

Yes. Self-ID, innit.

But AIDS actually happens. People die of it.

Unlike the situation with trans murder, which has been happily shown upthread to be not a thing (in that transc people are demonstrably less, not more likely to be murder victims).

So why do we have public buildings commorating a thing that doesn't happen?

Perhaps they should start commemorating flat earth day, or alien invasion day?

NB My intention isn't to make light of any murder, every one is a tragedy. But I want to highlight how world Aids day, for example, is just not comparable to trans day of remembrance.

trans murder, which has been happily shown upthread to be not a thing

Its nonsense to say that the murder of trans people is ‘not a thing’ @AstonScrapingsNameChange.

Quite apart from systemic targeting of trans people at points in history (eg. by the Nazis), there are many, many documented examples of people being murdered for their gender identity in this century and the last.

I can’t answer why the SNP might choose to commemorate trans day of remembrance, and not other specific days- that’s something only they can answer - but let’s not try and pretend violence against (and sometimes murder of) those in the trans community is ‘not a thing’.

I think this is already happening. There are so many causes for different days, often more than one day for some causes, that people largely don't pay attention, or even find it annoying.

It’s not antisemitic to note that the Nazis targeted other people groups as well as the Jews @AstonScrapingsNameChange. And it is known that among those other people groups, trans people were targeted. That’s been acknowledged relatively recently in the Bundestag.

Is your argument that there shouldn’t be a trans day of remembrance unless it can be statistically shown that trans people are more likely to be murdered than people who are not trans?

Worldwide, the way crimes against trans people are recorded will vary substantially don’t you think- some countries would record male against trans woman crime as male against male crime (incorrectly IMO- appreciate it wouldn’t be incorrect in yours), so there are unlikely to be decent stats on this.