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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans remembrance flags and SNP renews support for LGBTYS

443 replies

WandsOut · 26/12/2024 22:57

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14226129/Trans-remembrance-flags-flown-public-buildings.html

What is going on here.
Why are they so determined to support LGBTYS and trans young people - who is driving this?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
ArabellaScott · 28/12/2024 18:27

From the WingsoverScotland article:

'– Trans people overall are typically about three times LESS likely, per capita, to be murdered than non-trans people.
– If you exclude sex workers, that figure jumps to SIX times less likely.
– If you exclude Central and South America, the total number of recorded murders of transgender people in the entire rest of the world is just 1,839 in 15 years. That’s less than one per country per year. For comparison, over the same period 48,000 people have been killed by worms.'

TalkingintheDark · 28/12/2024 18:50

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/12/2024 17:42

Scott, who was previously known as Andrew Burns,

And Obi Wan Kenobi or something if I remember rightly.

Indeed, Obi Wan Kenobi was the first persona he took on, and demanded to have respected by the courts etc. He also went by Mighty Almighty, though I’m not sure if that was concurrent with OWK or subsequent; or indeed if those were his “preferred pronouns” rather than a name.

He also led 100 inmates in falsely pretending to be Jewish in order to have kosher food.

That anyone would buy into the idea that this disturbed, extremely violent man was remotely sincere in his profession to be a “woman”, when he was clearly doing all he could to disrupt/game the system, is really quite startling.

But then of course that’s where genderist logic takes you.

Believe people when they tell you who they are. No gatekeeping. No one would ever lie about this for any form of gain, etc etc.

Not that I think it would have made any difference if he had been sincere; he still wouldn’t have been a woman IMO, whether it was just him saying it or a GRC panel.

But it’s extraordinary that when a man like Burns made such an outrageous claim, instead of recognising that he was massively taking the piss, and dealing with him accordingly, people in authority rushed to validate him - even to the point of putting him in a woman’s prison, as they were about to before the furore around the Adam Graham/Isla Bryson case made that politically inexpedient.

And that is a direct result of elevating those deceptively referred to as “transgender women” to “sacred caste” status, of framing so-called transphobia as the worst possible blight on society, as these trans remembrance initiatives apparently seek to do.

Most particularly it’s framed as in infinitely greater ill than misogyny, misogyny which while already rampant, is only exacerbated and deepened by what is in effect a male rights movement.

The utter disregard and even contempt for the genuinely vulnerable women prisoners who would have been put at risk by and paid the price for this monstrous decision is soul destroying to contemplate.

TalkingintheDark · 28/12/2024 19:03

And there is nothing to suggest that Burns’ death was the result of violence, or that he was in any way targeted, by staff or other inmates, because of his “transgender” status.

Quite the opposite: prison authorities bent over backwards to accommodate him, when they really shouldn’t have; and other inmates were happy to follow his lead, suggesting he was anything but vulnerable in that situation.

The prison authorities even tried to make women prison officers perform intimate searches on him, as he demanded, showing once again how women’s rights and safety - the right not to have to submit to sexual assault as part of your job, for example - are deprioritised and roundly ignored in the face of these male demands.

Those women officers were put in the position of having to defy those orders and risk disciplinary action, such is the hold that men like Burns have over the Establishment.

The myth of “trans people” being the most vulnerable and marginalised members of society is one of the most staggeringly successful propaganda campaigns ever.

TWETMIRF · 28/12/2024 19:07

When talking about violence against trans people it's important to remember that this includes people saying that it's not possible to change sex. Women saying that they want to keep single sex services is also classed as literal violence.

This comes from those claiming to be fighting for trans rights, it's not something that feminists are saying to try and undermine them. If you have to claim that a woman saying no is an act of violence, it's pretty clear that actual examples of violence are lacking.

ArabellaScott · 28/12/2024 19:07

The prison authorities even tried to make women prison officers perform intimate searches on him, as he demanded

Good fucking God. And now they raise a flag to honour this man. It is actually so unbelievable I have no more words.

SinnerBoy · 28/12/2024 19:22

FrippEnos · Today 17:17

Yes, he was a habitual criminal, but (IIRC) the BBC did a fact check and the home invasion never occurred. The pregnant woman didn't exist, it was fabricated by panicking Police, just as with Jean Charles de Menezes.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/12/2024 19:44

I also remember that Tiffany/Andrew/Mighty/Obi was considered too dangerous to be handled at one particular court.

In 2017, Falkirk Sheriff Court was locked down amid safety fears as Scott was sentenced over a series of violent incidents in Glenochil Prison in Clackmannanshire.
They included striking a prison nurse on her back with a hurled chair, punching a prison officer in the face, and spitting at another officer and trying to bite him.
Scott also smeared excrement over a cell and ripped up "tear-proof" clothing.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-68442073.amp

TWETMIRF · 28/12/2024 19:59

I'm sure that Tiffany just wanted to pee and it was the nasty women saying use the gents that made the poor flower overreact. All the TERFs made her do it and she was a tragic victim of transphobia.

Shortshriftandlethal · 28/12/2024 20:17

SparklyTurtle · 28/12/2024 13:15

George Floyd was a dangerous criminal but there were protests all over the world for him because racism is wrong. No one said police haven't murdered a black person in the UK so it's not our problem.

Transphobia and violence against trans people is wrong and the fact that some of them are criminals doesn't negate that.

Trans identifying men who have been killed, have most often been murdered by their boyfriends or whilst involved in prostitution ( mostly in S.America) which is a notoriously risky and dangerous occupation.

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 28/12/2024 20:20

SparklyTurtle · 28/12/2024 13:15

George Floyd was a dangerous criminal but there were protests all over the world for him because racism is wrong. No one said police haven't murdered a black person in the UK so it's not our problem.

Transphobia and violence against trans people is wrong and the fact that some of them are criminals doesn't negate that.

Bloody hell, are you actually trying to equate the systemic racism against black people that is a hang over from slavery and which gave birth to the BLM movement with some trans people's experience?

Bloody hell!

Talk about appropriation.

Any murder is a tragic waste that should not have happened. But sadly we don't live in a perfect world. Happily, as PP have posted stats to show, trans people are less likely to be murdered than the general population- yay!

Oh but wait that doesn't support your lies narrative of trans people being the most oppressed group ever.

Just stop it. We see you. The idiots in the Scottish government might be taken in, but they don't have a great track record, do they?

Shortshriftandlethal · 28/12/2024 20:21

SparklyTurtle · 28/12/2024 13:41

Wow, an open admission that people here don't care about violence against transgender people because people speak up against transphobia.

Amazing.

Nowhere to go after that is there!

Trans identifying people are mostly not murdered because they are trans; they are murdered by partners or by 'clients' or others involved in the drug and prostitution 'scenes', same as with other such murders.

"The annual global list is released for Transgender Day of Remembrance, held on November 20 each year. This year's numbers reflect the period between 1 October 2023 and 30 September 2024.
The majority of the murders were committed in Latin America and the Caribbean. For the 17th consecutive year, Brazil has seen the highest number of murders, accounting for 3 in ten (30%) cases.
Nine cases were recorded in Africa for this monitoring period, more than double the previous highest annual total since the project began. Notably, there were also rises in the U.S., while there was a decrease in Europe.
Yet again the report found that most victims were Black and migrant trans women of colour and trans sex workers"

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 28/12/2024 20:27

There's not some Mob going round attacking trans people, much as people like sparkly would like that to be the case.

You could pick any random characteristic of this people murdered in the last year and say 'oh 200 people with eg red hair were murdered last year, they must be being targeted for their hair colour'. But you'd be wrong. In a group of 500,000 youre going to get significantly sized subgroups.

FrippEnos · 29/12/2024 06:37

SinnerBoy · 28/12/2024 19:22

FrippEnos · Today 17:17

Yes, he was a habitual criminal, but (IIRC) the BBC did a fact check and the home invasion never occurred. The pregnant woman didn't exist, it was fabricated by panicking Police, just as with Jean Charles de Menezes.

Memories being what they are it would be good if you could come back with the article or whatever the bbc did.

Its also interesting that you are defending him.

SinnerBoy · 29/12/2024 07:04

I'm not defending him, just pointing out that, as far as I know, he'd not done a particular thing. I'll have a look when I'm more awake.

Reetpetitenot · 29/12/2024 07:11

'A total of nine trans people were murdered in the UK between 2008 and 2017 using unofficial data according to 4 news. That’s an average rate of one victim per year. Again the UK is not Scotland but does include it so you can't say no Scottish trans people have been murdered truthfully without any evidence.'

By your figures therefore trans people are far less likely to be murdered than any other group..

Surely if a trans person had been murdered in Scotland, TRAs would be hollering from the rooftops? Yet there's not a peep.

Datun · 29/12/2024 07:28

SparklyTurtle · 28/12/2024 14:28

I paraphrased to shorten the paragraph. The sentiment is the same.

If paraphrasing turns sensible people against a minority that regularly faces discrimination, they are not good people.

Ah yes typing out and changing an entire paragraph is always so much quicker than cutting and pasting the actual sentence.

sadmillenial · 29/12/2024 07:39

My understanding of this is that the flags are flown on transgender day of remembrance, not permanently? have i misunderstood?

Im always very wary of arguments that pit different groups against each other, like an earlier post that questioned why this happened and there wasn't a similar public gesture for drug addiction/deaths or VAWG. I don't think that's the most useful way to frame the argument; personally, id rather have all of those groups properly represented and advocated for! we should be pushing our politicians to work harder on these issues, as Jess Philips has been doing for years, but i dont see the benefit in framing is as "you dont do it for this, so dont do it for that"

also, just to add that the day of remembrance is for all transgender people who have lost their lives. This of course includes victims of violence but also includes those who took their own lives or who lost their lives through addiction, etc. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5178031/

i dont think you have to be a TRA to empathise with one day of remembrance being allocated for a community?

Suicide and Suicidal Behavior among Transgender Persons - PMC

Suicide rate and suicidal tendencies among transgender persons are considerably high compared to general population. Hence, this review is an attempt to understand the issues around the suicide and suicidal behavior among transgender persons. The ...

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5178031

SinnerBoy · 29/12/2024 07:47

FrippEnos · Today 06:37

Memories being what they are it would be good if you could come back with the article or whatever the bbc did.

OK, I'm completely wrong here, many apologies. I've no idea where I've got the idea from, I must be mixing him up with somebody else. As you say, memories being what they are.

GailBlancheViola · 29/12/2024 08:59

Excellent posts TalkingintheDark.

TheCourseOfTheRiverChanged · 29/12/2024 09:23

SparklyTurtle · 28/12/2024 16:48

I never said Scott specifically died of violence, you've made that up.

So if criminals don't deserve the same respect as the rest of society why are we supposed to care about the women he's in prison with?

Unless it's got nothing to do with the fact he's a criminal and it's just because he's trans that you have a problem with his death actually mattering of course?

"So if criminals don't deserve the same respect as the rest of society why are we supposed to care about the women he's in prison with?
Unless it's got nothing to do with the fact he's a criminal and it's just because he's trans that you have a problem with his death actually mattering of course?"
Is child-stalker-gender a bit like rapist-gender, then?

BonfireLady · 29/12/2024 10:06

SparklyTurtle · 28/12/2024 16:48

I never said Scott specifically died of violence, you've made that up.

So if criminals don't deserve the same respect as the rest of society why are we supposed to care about the women he's in prison with?

Unless it's got nothing to do with the fact he's a criminal and it's just because he's trans that you have a problem with his death actually mattering of course?

I don't tend to pass comment on pronoun usage these days but I'm curious...

Why are you using "he" pronouns for Tiffany Scott?

RufustheFactuaIReindeer · 29/12/2024 10:16

SparklyTurtle · 28/12/2024 14:28

I paraphrased to shorten the paragraph. The sentiment is the same.

If paraphrasing turns sensible people against a minority that regularly faces discrimination, they are not good people.

How you have the audacity to lie about someones post being ‘not caring’ and then post No I'm not scouring the internet to look for information that places one of recorded deaths in the article linked in Scotland, because I have better things to spend my time on Ive no idea 😳

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 29/12/2024 10:26

sadmillenial · 29/12/2024 07:39

My understanding of this is that the flags are flown on transgender day of remembrance, not permanently? have i misunderstood?

Im always very wary of arguments that pit different groups against each other, like an earlier post that questioned why this happened and there wasn't a similar public gesture for drug addiction/deaths or VAWG. I don't think that's the most useful way to frame the argument; personally, id rather have all of those groups properly represented and advocated for! we should be pushing our politicians to work harder on these issues, as Jess Philips has been doing for years, but i dont see the benefit in framing is as "you dont do it for this, so dont do it for that"

also, just to add that the day of remembrance is for all transgender people who have lost their lives. This of course includes victims of violence but also includes those who took their own lives or who lost their lives through addiction, etc. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5178031/

i dont think you have to be a TRA to empathise with one day of remembrance being allocated for a community?

But why? You don't think it's insane to be "remembering" things that just aren't happening in this country?

There are vanishingly few deaths to violence around the world. There is very little evidence of excess suicidality.

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 29/12/2024 10:40

And asking why - when it's not done for any other community, save for war veterans (which is obviously right and appropriate as they have their lives for others).

Asking why does not mean the asker thinks the group are awful people/ deserve to die/ whatever other words you want to put in our mouths.

It's a genuine question. Because comemoratiing this thing that doesn't happen lends weight to the false narrative that trans people are more at risk from violence and suicide than other groups and therefore need special treatment (women's rights) because they have such a hard time.

I don't understand why you can't see this false narrative at work. Perhaps the cognitive dissonance is too painful.

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 29/12/2024 10:50

That was a reply to sadmillenial.

We could have a suicide day of remembrance, like we do for baby loss.

But if you're going to start subdividing that into each subcategory like trans, where does it end? We'd be having them all the time and that weakens the impact.

The government are supposed to equally represent everyone, not just certain privileged groups. That's how democracy is supposed to work.

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