US state introduces bill to punish women getting abortions with death penalty

[SerendipityJane]

https://metro.co.uk/2024/12/20/us-state-introduces-bill-punish-women-getting-abortions-death-penalty-22226357/

Exactly.

Wow. Whilst I am not in favour of abortion unless there is risk to the mother/foetus, punishing a woman in this way is just plain wrong, and is anti-Christian in the extreme.

Not sure how they'd manage to implement that??

Gonna be a hell of a lot of death sentences

(Or people moving out of SC)

I know. They are insane / very disturbed.

Reminds me of a quote from the comedian Bill Hicks. "Pro- lifers killing people? It's pretty basic irony but it's there".

Sometimes I feel as a British person, we should apologise for sending all those Protestant fanatics to America. Not just for taking over the land, but imposing their religious mania of a country that is meant to be diverse as part of its founding principles (or something).

There are far more Catholics than Evangelical Protestants in the US and many Catholics believe that life is sacred from conception. Look at the abortion laws in Central and South America, the US is more in line with them than with Europe.

It's an absolutely vile law. Only a misogynist could have dreamt it up. I fear for women under Trump as he will only instate more conservative judges.

This is 24 carat, five star, ocean-going card-carrying nuts. A demented need to control every aspect of a woman's existence.

My thoughts exactly - the reasoning of this bill is only logical.

However, I unfortunately disagree with your conclusion. As we see on these forums all the time, many people have black and white thinking while lacking a sense of proportion. They’ll find this type of logic irresistible, and that’s before you even get to those who are primarily motivated by misogyny.

I also think the pro-choice movement doesn’t really tackle head on the clash of ‘rights’. I too think it absurd - and insulting - that the will, well-being and autonomy of a fully conscious human being can be overridden by an embryo that is not even going to have any understanding of its situation and will not experience suffering. I can I understand why - it’s not a ‘nice’ argument and it’s more difficult to articulate than ‘healthcare’ - but it is the crux of it for most. The basic right to not be forced to give up your body to another is paramount. But it isn’t centred in this debate.

I read years ago that the religious nuts thought it far better for the mother to die than for an abortion to take place. I'm not remotely tolerant enough to even try to understand this.

The basic right to not be forced to give up your body to another is paramount. But it isn’t centred in this debate.

Exactly that.

So if the foetus inside me, in law, is an individual in its own right, why can I not evict it, as its being a parasite, taking anything it wants from me? If this was an 18 year old, plenty of people would say 'make it stand on its own 2 feet'

Oh dear. Are they really that incredibly stupid. To go on and on about human life being so precious and doing all they can to protect what they see as unborn children yet are pushing forward with plans to kill human women ? So it is precious and yet it’s also not ? Basically they want the children but not the mothers. How sickening.

But they don't seem to even really want those children, do they?

What does it take to introduce a bill in South Carolina - can you just get any old radical lawyers put in a bill to see if it will fly or does it have to pass a sniff test first?

It's not surprising this bill has been introduced and co-sponsored by these extreme individuals - any member of a state house can introduce any mad bill they want, there's no guarantee a bill will ever become law.

The real question is how do these nutters get elected into office in the first place?

It'a pretty simple logic. The woman dying is an act of god but the abortion is a deliberate choice to take a life ie a sin. I don't agree with them but that is the thinking. (ETA - referring here to the religious nuts who won't abort a pregnancy to save the mother, not the religious nuts who want to execute woemn who have abortions)

Beyond that, the whole thing is based on the belief that if something bad has to happen, better to save a soul without sin than one with. Since the foetus has not had the change to sin yet it always wins against a human with a lived life. They prefer the potential of perfection implied by a tabula rasa than the messy compromises of existing in the world.

This is also why they don't care what happens to the "saved" kids after birth. Birth takes them from perfect clean slate to messy needy human, and the longer they live the more tainted and less worthy of consideration they become.

But execution is the deliberate taking of a life ? How would they justify this ??

the foetus has not had the chance to sin

I'm not sure that stacks up with Christian doctrine. The foetus has original sin, and hasn't been cleansed of it by baptism.

Surely that would make the effect of abortion even worse in the eyes of someone who believes in original sin and the power of baptism, though?

I'm no expert but I've always understood original sin to be a very different type of sin from sins one commits, at least in Catholicism.

As we see on these forums all the time, many people have black and white thinking while lacking a sense of proportion. They’ll find this type of logic irresistible, and that’s before you even get to those who are primarily motivated by misogyny.

Yes, that makes sense, unfortunately. It's insane how easily misogyny seeps through into every aspect of our lives with no-one even noticing because it's already so commonplace.

Imagine going through life knowing your mother was executed for you.

Well, seems some folk soon won't have to imagine.

I wonder if this bill has been sponsored by a reality TV outfit with a long term project ?

I guess there's also money to be made from putting the babies of executed mothers up for adoption. I wonder if we'll see a trend for pretty intelligent women being executed more often than statistics would suggest ?

I suspect my weird edge is showing now.

And you think your refusal would be listened to?

I can see a future where merely knowing this (let alone posting it) would attract a penalty for "knowledge useful to a terrorist".

A cursory knowledge of the ancient world - Greece, Sparta, Athens as well as Rome and Egypt would help to settle a lot of people. As the bible says, and my DM loved to say: , "There is nothing new under the sun"

On a more serious note, if you exempt rape within marriage in law, then you pretty much neutralise this tactic. Unless South Carolingian women are keen second amendmentists

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysistrata

I was replying to a post about the religious nuts who won't abort to save the mother's life, not the religious nuts who want to execute women for having abortions. I guess you must have replied before I edited it to clarify.

(But clearly, the latter group make a distinction between an individual chosing to kill when they are not obliged to (sin) and killing when acting as an agent of the state/church in punishment or military action.)