Page 5 | Dr David Bell

impossibletoday · 2024-12-15T16:51:29+00:00

Perfect.... [[https://x.com/genspect/status/1868132862463250719?s=19&t=BwpDbkB2hoVGIXu0OUQavA https://x.com/genspect/status/1868132862463250719?t=BwpDbkB2hoVGIXu0OUQavA&s=19]]

Shortshriftandlethal · 19/12/2024 15:35

ButterflyHatched · 19/12/2024 01:23

He never actually treated childhood Gender Incongruence, never worked in GIDS and in fact worked on adults in a completely different department in a completely different building.

He has presented a story where a group of transphobes and conversion therapists who had infiltrated the organisation over time met with him in secret and presented their 'concerns'. In truth, these were largely historical issues from disgruntled ideologues about the more chaotic early days of the service alongside a rising tide of reactionary transphobic rhetoric - much of which was espoused by staff who had found their growing hostility toward softening cultural attitudes toward trans people and the neutrality of a 'trans outcome' to be incompatible with a service that centred a compassionate policy of epistemic justice.

A dubious doom-laden report was submitted by him to the Board of Directors,
which the trust identified as comprising a list of historical issues which had already been addressed and inciting even greater abuse toward existing staff. He was threatened with disciplinary action and then quit rather than be fired.

He has since been lionised by the reactionary press alongside two prominent conversion therapists - one of whom used to work in GIDS but left when it became clear her views weren't compatible with actually providing meaningful treatment to the children she'd been charged with helping.

You'll find most of the rhetoric surrounding GIDS is hopelessly naïve, often involving highly confused timelines that shift events and schools of thought around by whole decades at a time, and clearly focussed more toward building a sensational and spicy story that will drive headlines than it is toward accurately reflecting the true events.

Truth is often the first casualty when a hack with an agenda catches a whiff of a career-making big break.

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" transphobes and conversion therapists had infiltrated the organisation"

You do realise how conspiratorial and unhinged this sounds? The people you are talking about are people who had been working in children's services their whole career; some of whom were gay, and were actually concerned that gay children were having "conversion therapy' practised upon them; sometimes in thrall to homophobic parents

Theeyeballsinthesky · 19/12/2024 15:37

As always after reading any thread with Butters fingers all over it, I’m convinced that they are a deep state double agent GC activist. Everything they post does our work for us

Shortshriftandlethal · 19/12/2024 15:41

ButterflyHatched · 19/12/2024 12:41

Calling them 'Wrong sex hormones' does not reflect well on the seriousness with which you seem to be treating this subject.

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HRT is an actual thing...meant to replace naturally occuring hormones that have declined after female menopause - not the prescription of cross sex hormones to those whose bodies do not naturally produce them.

RedToothBrush · 19/12/2024 15:44

career-making big break

Oddly though David Bell was not alone in his concerns. A number tried to whistleblow and they suffered the typical fate of whistleblowers. It was more or less career killing. They had nothing to gain by speaking and everything to lose.

Not only this, but the Tavistock then managed to demonstrate, when asked about long term outcomes and follow up that it had a 'dog ate my homework' attitude to this.

And it got closed down due to a number of safeguarding failures. It didn't get closed down purely due to David Bell.

Then we had a independent review by Hilary Cass. But once again this is somehow explained away by smears.

It's almost as if there's a pattern of incompetence by those carrying out 'gender affirming care' rather than transphobia.

niadainud · 19/12/2024 15:48

ButterflyHatched · 18/12/2024 11:01

That man has been responsible for the destruction of so many lives and is one of the main reasons that the UK is now decried by human rights organisations worldwide for not providing healthcare to transgender youth.

Hate hides behind kind words and a veneer of benevolence, and the way he has shamelessly weaponised the complex difficulties of vulnerable detransitioners is nothing short of chilling.

He'll get away with it, too. He and his fellow cabal of anti-trans zealots who infested our healthcare system will never face justice for the immense harms they have caused. They've denied the kids who follow in my footsteps a future and are busy doing everything in their power to isolate themselves from the consequences.

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Follow in your footsteps? How very humble of you to frame it in such a way. In fact, you use the word "chilling"...

It infuriates me that trans people are just as erroneously convinced that they are denied treatment purely because of medics' self-interest and bigoted views as people with DSDs are convinced they were given treatment purely because of medics' nefarious agenda.

It couldn't possibly be that these doctors do not have a vested interest and are simply using their training and experience to judge what they think will result in the best outcome for the patient.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/12/2024 15:55

Theeyeballsinthesky · 19/12/2024 15:37

As always after reading any thread with Butters fingers all over it, I’m convinced that they are a deep state double agent GC activist. Everything they post does our work for us

Indeed. I've been listening to Andrew Gold's Heretics where he interviewed Dr Az Hakeem (consultant psychiatrist /psychotherapist who dealt with adults with gender dysphoria) who spoke with great insight about a range of issues. At one point he spoke about "trans facts" versus "real facts" and the fantasy world that so many of his patients immersed themselves in.
It's a long listen but with some fascinating insights:

x.com/AndrewGold_ok/status/1869147637271912933

DrBlackbird · 19/12/2024 16:02

Datun · 18/12/2024 20:20

Well I just did a thumbs up on someone's post, and it now says, under the post on the reaction button, 'agree'.

I just got used to saying thank you!

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I preferred the old ‘thank you’. These emojis feel a bit … adolescent. Sigh.

RedToothBrush · 19/12/2024 16:10

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/12/2024 15:55

Indeed. I've been listening to Andrew Gold's Heretics where he interviewed Dr Az Hakeem (consultant psychiatrist /psychotherapist who dealt with adults with gender dysphoria) who spoke with great insight about a range of issues. At one point he spoke about "trans facts" versus "real facts" and the fantasy world that so many of his patients immersed themselves in.
It's a long listen but with some fascinating insights:

x.com/AndrewGold_ok/status/1869147637271912933

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The fantasy world that so many trans activists are immersed in is something that has always interested me because of the large numbers who are also obsessive about gaming, gaming, fantasy or sci-fi (the Whoniverse is a particularly interesting one).

These interests are massively over represented.

There's this weird disconnect between how the world sees and self identity generally too. It's not restricted to sex/gender identity. It's a whole cognitive pattern.

Unfortunately, regardless of how you identify reality has this nasty habit of disagreeing with you.

Dissociation is the key point.

Indeed we know there are bunch of dissociation disorders. These do not have demands for us to affirm their dissociation though.

https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/dissociative-disorders/#:~:text=Symptoms%20of%20dissociative%20disorder%20can,uncertain%20about%20who%20you%20are

Dissociative disorders

Dissociative disorders are a group of conditions where you may feel disconnected from reality. Find out more, including where to get help.

https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/dissociative-disorders#:~:text=Symptoms%20of%20dissociative%20disorder%20can,uncertain%20about%20who%20you%20are

Hoardasurass · 19/12/2024 17:00

ButterflyHatched · 19/12/2024 12:35

None of that has anything to do with puberty blockers.

20 years of oral HRT is well documented as being an increased risk factor for various health issues. Anyone who takes oral HRT for 20 years will experience this elevated risk.

I have since been moved to a safer form of HRT with a significantly reduced risk, which I have now been on for several years.

You have continually misquoted me for years on this point. I have clearly and unambiguously clarified it many, many times. I am clearly and unambiguously clarifying it here again.

If you want to start a campaign to ban oral HRT then be my guest. I wouldn't recommend it personally as I think you will not be satisfied with the potential outcomes.

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Your not on hrt your on cross sex hormones be honest with yourself atleast, that way you can be realistic about your riak of complications

Helleofabore · 19/12/2024 17:16

Receiving exogenous hormones that are not what a person's body was formed around producing is not HRT at all. Posters are quite correct in pointing this out. It is indeed more accurate to refer to them as Cross Sex Hormones.

However, it is quite clear that the use of this inaccurate and misleading language, calling such drugs 'HRT' is mean to not only be convincing that this is a 'woman' receiving the correct drugs for their sex category, but also it is forced teaming and now it is being used for coercion.

The 'you will not be satisfied with the potential outcomes' is clearly meant to be a threat that if we seek to ban male people from receiving the oestrogen and progesterone supplements designed to alleviate symptoms of menopause, that we will end up blocking our own supply.

There really is no tactic that extreme trans activists will not stoop too to force their demands to be met.

And it is always rather illustrative for people to read.

RedToothBrush · 19/12/2024 17:26

Hoardasurass · 19/12/2024 17:00

Your not on hrt your on cross sex hormones be honest with yourself atleast, that way you can be realistic about your riak of complications

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If someone isn't honest that cross sex hormones are not hrt I don't think I'd give a lot of time to their thoughts on medicalisation of children...

BonfireLady · 19/12/2024 20:14

MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/12/2024 09:05

This nasty hate filled post is the fading roar of transactivism.
The Stonewall captured CQC found GIDs to be Inadequate.
Both the Conservative & Labour Governments have completely accepted the findings of the Cass Review despite both having been historically in thrall to transactivism.
The safeguarding lead at GIDS, Sonia Appleby, won damages from the Trust at an employment tribunal after the repeated attempts by activist staff to stop her raining safeguarding concerns about children.
GIDs is closed and the treatment of gender questioning children being moved into children's hospitals where evidence based ethical medical practice is the norm rather than the exception.
Time to Think - Hannah Barnes book is a detailed expose of the ease with which self interested transactivists were allowed to influence practice at GIDS. She highlights the ease with which the paedophile / porn scandal hit Mermaids & Gendered Intelligence groups were able to infiltrate what should have been a medical service for children to shape practice for their own niche demands.

Below is a link to an interview with Dr Bell. Maybe have a listen and consider who has children's best interests at heart ? Butterfly with the Pied Piper complex "children following in my footsteps" (remember what happened to the children led away by the Pied Piper) or Dr Bell with his thoughtful, evidenced knowledge about children:

https://www.channel4.com/news/children-have-been-very-seriously-damaged-by-nhs-gender-clinic-says-former-tavistock-staff-governor

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I prefer your roar, MrsO.

What a great post 👏👏

Datun · 19/12/2024 20:31

The 'you will not be satisfied with the potential outcomes' is clearly meant to be a threat that if we seek to ban male people from receiving the oestrogen and progesterone supplements designed to alleviate symptoms of menopause, that we will end up blocking our own supply.

Absolutely. And although I'm sure most people absorb this information like osmosis, actually writing it out does show up the hopeless self interest of men who want to take wrong sex hormones.

if you don't let me take wrong sex hormones, and call it HRT to validate how 'womanly' I am and you make objections to it, then guess what, your own health will be at stake.

Shameless, manipulative, selfish.

lcakethereforeIam · 19/12/2024 21:01

DrBlackbird · 19/12/2024 16:02

I preferred the old ‘thank you’. These emojis feel a bit … adolescent. Sigh.

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When I get a message telling me someone's reacted to my post, it does make me feel like I've brought them out in a rash. I usually only have that effect in real life 😁

RedToothBrush · 19/12/2024 21:02

Datun · 19/12/2024 20:31

The 'you will not be satisfied with the potential outcomes' is clearly meant to be a threat that if we seek to ban male people from receiving the oestrogen and progesterone supplements designed to alleviate symptoms of menopause, that we will end up blocking our own supply.

Absolutely. And although I'm sure most people absorb this information like osmosis, actually writing it out does show up the hopeless self interest of men who want to take wrong sex hormones.

if you don't let me take wrong sex hormones, and call it HRT to validate how 'womanly' I am and you make objections to it, then guess what, your own health will be at stake.

Shameless, manipulative, selfish.

Edited

Women are used to being gatekept by men who somehow have greater need, even when that's not true.

Let's not forget, women who have been shown to clinically benefit HRT have faced shortages whilst men who say they benefit from cross sex hormones despite a lack of actual evidence (indeed much evidence saying the exact opposite) have often continued to get theirs at the same time.

Lovelyview · 19/12/2024 21:23

BonfireLady · 18/12/2024 11:49

Just caught up on this thread.

@ButterflyHatched I'm sorry you feel so angry at the "transphobes" who want children to have access to good therapeutic support that helps them understand and address why they might be feeling distressed about their bodies.

Perhaps they are autistic girls experiencing breast development and periods as difficult sensory issues. Perhaps they are girls who have experienced sexual abuse, who are identifying out of their "weak" bodies so that they won't experience this again. Perhaps they are boys or girls who have heard children mocking gay and lesbian people, who are concerned at emerging feelings of same-sex attraction, sadly disgusted and/or scared at thoughts of themselves as gay. Preferring instead to see themselves as "straight", but "trapped in the wrong body".

Watching you dismiss all this, dismiss Dr Bell and others who are putting children's mental and physical health first is as concerning as it is frustrating.

Hopefully anyone new to MN, or still lurking while getting their head around it all, can see the glaringly obvious flaw here: it makes no sense whatsoever for anyone to advocate for children to have their puberty stopped. Forever. There is no puberty of the opposite sex, there's just puberty or no puberty. Brains that have been fully developed through adolescence, or brains whose development has been impacted. Forever. Children growing into adulthood with permanently altered brains, bones and endocrine systems.

It makes even less sense when we already know that at least 80% of children who feel this type of distress grow out of it without this life-altering medicalised pathway, that they are too young to comprehend anyway.

I truly hope that you are at peace with the decisions you made about your own body. From everything you've said, it sounds like you are. But that doesn't mean it makes any sense at all for you to dismiss the concerns of medical professionals like Dr Bell. Please stop.

Edited

Beautifully put. Thank you.

ButterflyHatched · 20/12/2024 00:15

niadainud · 19/12/2024 15:48

Follow in your footsteps? How very humble of you to frame it in such a way. In fact, you use the word "chilling"...

It infuriates me that trans people are just as erroneously convinced that they are denied treatment purely because of medics' self-interest and bigoted views as people with DSDs are convinced they were given treatment purely because of medics' nefarious agenda.

It couldn't possibly be that these doctors do not have a vested interest and are simply using their training and experience to judge what they think will result in the best outcome for the patient.

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Not sure that arguing in favour of the grim history of surgical 'corrections' for people with DSD's (which have historically often been carried out long before the patient is capable of even being consulted, let alone consenting) is a winning strategy here.

ButterflyHatched · 20/12/2024 00:18

RedToothBrush · 19/12/2024 16:10

The fantasy world that so many trans activists are immersed in is something that has always interested me because of the large numbers who are also obsessive about gaming, gaming, fantasy or sci-fi (the Whoniverse is a particularly interesting one).

These interests are massively over represented.

There's this weird disconnect between how the world sees and self identity generally too. It's not restricted to sex/gender identity. It's a whole cognitive pattern.

Unfortunately, regardless of how you identify reality has this nasty habit of disagreeing with you.

Dissociation is the key point.

Indeed we know there are bunch of dissociation disorders. These do not have demands for us to affirm their dissociation though.

https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/dissociative-disorders/#:~:text=Symptoms%20of%20dissociative%20disorder%20can,uncertain%20about%20who%20you%20are

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Oh bravo, this is a new height even for you.

lcakethereforeIam · 20/12/2024 00:34

While I've a lot of respect for Dr Bell, I wasn't really cognisant of quite how distinguished he is. There's a blurb at the top of this link for a lecture that he's giving next year that summarises it

https://psychoanalysis.org.uk/civicrm/event/info%3Fid%3D1706%26reset%3D1

There's also a different Dr David Bell (another over achiever) who's carrying out a review of the WHO and its ties to the corporate world re. pandemic preparedness.

At least I think it's a different Dr David Bell. I'm not sure if they've ever been seen in the same room together 🤔

The Unconscious with Dr David Bell | Institute of Psychoanalysis

https://psychoanalysis.org.uk/civicrm/event/info%3Fid%3D1706%26reset%3D1

NotBadConsidering · 20/12/2024 05:55

ButterflyHatched · 20/12/2024 00:15

Not sure that arguing in favour of the grim history of surgical 'corrections' for people with DSD's (which have historically often been carried out long before the patient is capable of even being consulted, let alone consenting) is a winning strategy here.

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🤣🤣🤣 the irony!

So you think children with DSDs should not have any hormonal or surgical corrections carried out until they’re old enough (advocates currently campaigning to make it adulthood), but you do believe that children who claim to be transgender should have hormonal and surgical interventions on their bodies at whatever age they see fit?

Your arguments are becoming so desperate you can’t even see the hypocritical holes you dig yourself into.

Shortshriftandlethal · 20/12/2024 08:04

niadainud · 19/12/2024 15:48

Follow in your footsteps? How very humble of you to frame it in such a way. In fact, you use the word "chilling"...

It infuriates me that trans people are just as erroneously convinced that they are denied treatment purely because of medics' self-interest and bigoted views as people with DSDs are convinced they were given treatment purely because of medics' nefarious agenda.

It couldn't possibly be that these doctors do not have a vested interest and are simply using their training and experience to judge what they think will result in the best outcome for the patient.

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The practice of actively nurturing delusions and mental ill health has led to an intense narcissisitic focus - where everything is about the individual's feelings - which are treated as inherently fragile and prone to shatter when confronted with reality.

niadainud · 20/12/2024 08:14

Shortshriftandlethal · 20/12/2024 08:04

The practice of actively nurturing delusions and mental ill health has led to an intense narcissisitic focus - where everything is about the individual's feelings - which are treated as inherently fragile and prone to shatter when confronted with reality.

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And everything is about "lived experience". I may own a vagina, but if something goes wrong with it I would trust a qualified male gynaecologist to treat me rather than another random vagina-haver.

RedToothBrush · 20/12/2024 08:21

ButterflyHatched · 20/12/2024 00:18

Oh bravo, this is a new height even for you.

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So you haven't got a counter argument to the issue of dissociation with reality that gender identity that goes hand in hand with except yet another character slur at me?

Good stuff.

Shortshriftandlethal · 20/12/2024 09:51

niadainud · 20/12/2024 08:14

And everything is about "lived experience". I may own a vagina, but if something goes wrong with it I would trust a qualified male gynaecologist to treat me rather than another random vagina-haver.

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I'm not sure I get your second point about "random vagina havers?"

Personally, as I've got older I now positively seek out qualified female gynaecologists if available

niadainud · 20/12/2024 10:01

Shortshriftandlethal · 20/12/2024 09:51

I'm not sure I get your second point about "random vagina havers?"

Personally, as I've got older I now positively seek out qualified female gynaecologists if available

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I just mean that if I had a gynaecological problem I wouldn't ask a random woman to treat me just because she had "lived experience" of having a vagina. I would go a qualified gynaecologist, even if they were male.

Similarly I prefer my restaurant meals to be cooked by a chef rather than someone who has "lived experience" of eating. I.e. having experienced something doesn't necessarily/automatically make you an expert in that field, especially if it's something complex like a medical/psychiatric condition.