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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 20/12/2024 10:28

niadainud · 20/12/2024 10:01

I just mean that if I had a gynaecological problem I wouldn't ask a random woman to treat me just because she had "lived experience" of having a vagina. I would go a qualified gynaecologist, even if they were male.

Similarly I prefer my restaurant meals to be cooked by a chef rather than someone who has "lived experience" of eating. I.e. having experienced something doesn't necessarily/automatically make you an expert in that field, especially if it's something complex like a medical/psychiatric condition.

So what you are saying is you'd prefer Monica to cook for you rather than Gregg... Or even Grace.

... seems fair enough!

niadainud · 20/12/2024 10:52

RedToothBrush · 20/12/2024 10:28

So what you are saying is you'd prefer Monica to cook for you rather than Gregg... Or even Grace.

... seems fair enough!

Hahaha! Yes, definitely.

ButterflyHatched · 20/12/2024 13:44

NotBadConsidering · 20/12/2024 05:55

🤣🤣🤣 the irony!

So you think children with DSDs should not have any hormonal or surgical corrections carried out until they’re old enough (advocates currently campaigning to make it adulthood), but you do believe that children who claim to be transgender should have hormonal and surgical interventions on their bodies at whatever age they see fit?

Your arguments are becoming so desperate you can’t even see the hypocritical holes you dig yourself into.

No I'm just capable of seeing the world as fuzzy and awkward intersections of complex issues where different people in different situations have different needs and have historically been mistreated in different ways.

Shortshriftandlethal · 20/12/2024 14:00

ButterflyHatched · 20/12/2024 13:44

No I'm just capable of seeing the world as fuzzy and awkward intersections of complex issues where different people in different situations have different needs and have historically been mistreated in different ways.

But as long as issues and 'intersections' remain fuzzy and lacking in clarity, nobody get their needs met or their dignity protected.

Fuzziness and blurred boundaries are no help to anyone.

ButterflyHatched · 20/12/2024 14:06

RedToothBrush · 20/12/2024 08:21

So you haven't got a counter argument to the issue of dissociation with reality that gender identity that goes hand in hand with except yet another character slur at me?

Good stuff.

I'm sorry, were you expecting a serious answer?

Ok.

Being a nerd does not make you transgender. Some but by no means all transgender people are nerds. Social factors often draw people from different marginalised groups together toward hobbies that provide them with safe arenas to explore their interests. Nerdy social groups are thus somewhat self-selecting toward high proportions of transgender people. This was arguably even more the case in the past when 'nerdiness' was much more of a source of derision, where many trans people were able to find a semblance of refuge by displacing transphobic abuse onto other aspects of their life. "If they're going to bully and sneer at me anyway, might as well make sure it's for something that is less harmful."

This dynamic itself sometimes explodes into its own form of toxicity (see gatekeeping behaviours that manifested within nerdy hobby spaces and metastasised into the new atheist techbro->gamergate->alt-right pipeline).

This has created a bizarre present that sees what have often become extremely inclusive refuge communities used to protect their often-marginalised memberships becoming conflated with Musk-style reactionary populism riding a 'geek is now cool' cultural wave.

Nerd spaces, by and large, remain committed to inclusiveness and have in many ways been the vanguard of feminist initiatives to effect positive change on society.

So no, I don't agree with your bait and switch argument trying to present transness as a side-effect of dissociation and social awkwardness.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 20/12/2024 16:18

Thanks for bumping this thread. Here's another interesting interview with Dr Bell - again commenting on how many generations of children have been harmed by "affirming" children's belief they're the opposite sex rather than a neutral "watchful waiting" approach. He unpicks the myth of the "trans child" .

Great that he's been interviewed so widely allowing his wisdom to be shared.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4Nhqf2vppw

RedToothBrush · 20/12/2024 18:53

ButterflyHatched · 20/12/2024 14:06

I'm sorry, were you expecting a serious answer?

Ok.

Being a nerd does not make you transgender. Some but by no means all transgender people are nerds. Social factors often draw people from different marginalised groups together toward hobbies that provide them with safe arenas to explore their interests. Nerdy social groups are thus somewhat self-selecting toward high proportions of transgender people. This was arguably even more the case in the past when 'nerdiness' was much more of a source of derision, where many trans people were able to find a semblance of refuge by displacing transphobic abuse onto other aspects of their life. "If they're going to bully and sneer at me anyway, might as well make sure it's for something that is less harmful."

This dynamic itself sometimes explodes into its own form of toxicity (see gatekeeping behaviours that manifested within nerdy hobby spaces and metastasised into the new atheist techbro->gamergate->alt-right pipeline).

This has created a bizarre present that sees what have often become extremely inclusive refuge communities used to protect their often-marginalised memberships becoming conflated with Musk-style reactionary populism riding a 'geek is now cool' cultural wave.

Nerd spaces, by and large, remain committed to inclusiveness and have in many ways been the vanguard of feminist initiatives to effect positive change on society.

So no, I don't agree with your bait and switch argument trying to present transness as a side-effect of dissociation and social awkwardness.

So you have talked about trends.

You have not talked about disassociation with reality.

There is a difference. I like fantasy, anime and sco fi myself. But I know where the boundary between fiction and reality stops and begins.

That's the difference.

It's when it's taken to a level where it stops being fiction and the boundaries are blurred.

RedToothBrush · 20/12/2024 18:54

So yeah I was expecting something addressing fantasy v reality and the inability to see the difference between them.

SinnerBoy · 20/12/2024 19:25

RedToothBrush · Today 10:28

Baldy Boy was my first thought, too!

SinnerBoy · 20/12/2024 19:26

Fuzzy boundaries benefit no one Indeed. Apart from a tiny, highly vocal minority, at the expense of a huge majority.

NotBadConsidering · 20/12/2024 20:08

ButterflyHatched · 20/12/2024 13:44

No I'm just capable of seeing the world as fuzzy and awkward intersections of complex issues where different people in different situations have different needs and have historically been mistreated in different ways.

Ok, explain how a child who says their trans can consent to irreversible treatments with hormonal or surgical therapy but a child with a DSD can’t. What’s “different” about it?

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