Dr David Bell

[impossibletoday]

Perfect....

https://x.com/genspect/status/1868132862463250719?t=BwpDbkB2hoVGIXu0OUQavA&s=19

It is food for thought isn't it? These children have really been abandoned by so many who should be centring their needs.

I really can't see how Dr. Bell has ruined the lives of thousands of British children. After all, he was an important cog in helping to stop the cynically abusive Tavistock mob, who laughed that most of their clients were gay and that they were transing away the gay.

Anybody who thinks that that is vital, life saving treatment probably needs a nice lie down in a rubber room.

You're a much nicer person than I am @BonfireLady . What I've seen is a
poster spending countless hours on a site designed for parents & to offer them support who repeatedly challenges the need to safeguard children. On this thread they dismiss the research and evidence that's exposed the scandal of "gender affirming" medical treatment for children. They've repeatedly posted conspiracy theories about suicide and children that must cause great distress to many parents.

I'm sure Dr Bell could shed light on why they post so many offensive comments about women (bigots, ant trans etc) on a site where women speak. But I'd hazard a guess that someone "at peace with themselves" wouldn't spend so many hours on here throwing accusations at women and parents seeking to protect our and other people's children.

I could of course be wrong.

All very good points.

I guess what I'm seeing is an increasing desperation to be heard. If I put myself in the shoes of someone for whom gender dysphoria feels real, I "get it".

Obviously all we've got on MN is the written word. My empathy drops off a cliff when I see images and/or videos of people on X or YouTube etc who are clearly flying in from Málaga Airport to tell us all why children need to have their brains and bodies altered forever.

However, regardless of motivation or benefit of the doubt, there is no logic to anyone arguing for medical experimentation on children.

This man is an expert on child mental health and has been working in the field for decades.

There is very good article in the Daily Mail today ( sorry!). A young woman in the USA who is suing the health care provider who dealt with her transition.At 15 she had OCD, anxiety, anorexia and had suicidal thoughts. She thought she was fat and ugly. She started to think she would be better off as a boy, was referred to a gender therapist and, voila, she was given hormones and later had a mastectomy.
After a while she realised she still had the same problems and detransitioned. She has been left with so many health issues due to taking male hormones. She has given birth but can't breastfeed, her chest and back are painful, she has chest hair still. She has vaginal atrophy and could only give birth via a c section. The list is endless of the problems she has, all caused by others thinking she could be a boy. She actually says, it's clear to her that she had other issues that should have been addressed, and also that female bodies don't become male, because they aren't designed to be male.
I mean, come on, why was this poor young woman shunted down the route of 'gender affirming care'?
This is why very young people should not be able to alter their bodies. Dress how you want etc, but keep your body healthy.
That's my two pennuth.

That's a very accurate two pennuth @NewGreenDuck ! This will be the story for tens of thousands of young women once they mature and realise the damage that's been done to them.

Nah, what does he know? After all random dudes on random forums disagrees with him, especially if they're dressed in fetish gear! 'Anyone agreeing with the expert is just a hateful child murdering transphobic bigot and probably a nazi racist too!' etc etc.

I'm finding the hyperbole interesting here. Take this bit....

They've denied the kids who follow in my footsteps a future and are busy doing everything in their power to isolate themselves from the consequences.

... what consequences? Who's isolating themselves?

Dr Bell, Baroness Cass, Sue Evans, Marcus Evans and other paediatric experts who been on this journey aren't isolating themselves. They're stepping forwards to speak up about this medical scandal.

As for the consequences of advocating evidence-based care. Erm. Yes please.

I'd rather that than we all continue to watch the consequences of the "world leading" approach that WPATH set in motion across the NHS and other world health bodies. The approach where even WPATH are quietly saying to each other (on the leaked videos in the WPATH files) that children and their parents can't possibly give informed consent to this. Because they aren't being informed about what it is they're consenting to.

For anyone who hasn't seen the WPATH files, Andrew Doyle did some great coverage with some great guests on Free Speech Nation. Regardless of how you feel about GB News (personally I'm no fan, Andrew Doyle excepted), or indeed Andrew Doyle (he appears to have pissed off a few feminists) it's worth Googling.

But they’re not “transitioning”, they’re changing the way they present their sexed bodies by utilising gender stereotypes. No amount of surgery, drugs m, clothing or make up can chance a person’s sex. It’s all a performance.

I could of course be wrong.

But you're not, Mrs. O. I too wonder at the zen-like calm of posters who are prepared to go through it all again, when all I am thinking is FOTTFSOFATFOSM.

I am wondering where @ButterflyHatched (and other activists who are trans) argue as they do and act as they do because they have been hormonally affected brain-wise? One of the videos I watched linked from this site (cannot recall details right now of who was speaking) was about the effect on the brain of blocking puberty . And the role of hormones on maturing how we think as we grow into adults.

This article makes points about brains and how they mature and how that affects decision making. https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/the-adolescent-brain-beyond-raging-hormones

If you have no puberty then do you remain a raging, intolerant teenager in your thoughts and never become mature? (The article is from 2005 so pre this debate but the speaker in the video was someone who looked into puberty blockers because she was amazed that they were seen as having no effect (time to think. totally reversible).

This is not an attack on @ButterflyHatched who I think did got through puberty. But its a reflection on how we may have entrenched thinking and behaviour from those that did use puberty blockers. Its one of the terrifying things - counts as worse to me than the physical problems of detransition. Its a trap without escape (you won't realise you are trapped).

His focus is children and he's been been a powerful advocate for them. He's one of the reasons the corruption and bad practice at GIDs was revealed. Not surprising that extreme transactivists don't like him.

True. It's better children have adults who do this than those who push gender ideology

At 15 she had OCD, anxiety, anorexia and had suicidal thoughts. She thought she was fat and ugly. She started to think she would be better off as a boy, was referred to a gender therapist and, voila, she was given hormones and later had a mastectomy.

It's insane. Every time I think about it. You have actual clinicians telling children that they can have body parts cut off which will help them believe they're opposite sex.

It's absolutely La La Land. There is nothing a girl can do to be a boy. Absolutely nothing. And vice versa. No man will ever have the smallest clue how it feels to inhabit the body of a woman.

I'm reminded of India Willoughby on Big Brother, totally topless and rubbing moisturiser into their chest, complete with silicone implants. Rubbing it in a way a woman never would. And saying, I don't feel a thing. Nothing.

Because it's a man's chest.

A man's chest with silicone implants. There's not a woman on the planet who knows what it feels like to be a man with silicone implants.

The inhumanity of doctors telling confused, mentally ill 15-year-old girls that they can turn them into as good a boy as they need to be, will never stop shocking me.

We get bogged down, sometimes, in the discourse on this site. Especially with madly hyperbolic posts like those of butters claiming whistleblower are destroying children's lives. Where there is an attempt to wrench the Overton window from one end of the building to another building entirely, down the end of the street.

But telling confused girls they can be boys and then cutting their breasts off to prove it, is and will never stop being, insane.

What does the clapping mean? Is it well done? That's what I thought it meant, but now it looks like it's thanks?

If not, what do we do if you just want to say thanks, now?

Prof Bell was one of my university lecturers, some time ago now. Thorough, pragmatic, happy to teach and speak to anyone. I’m not surprised by his profile now.

I think the thumbs up is the old thanks, and the clap is something like 'we'll done/good point we'll made'.

He deserves an OBE

Agreed!

You are aware that an autism (or ADHD, or any other similar neurotype) diagnosis would have generally excluded you from treatment as a member of this cohort, right?

As in, it is literally impossible for the older stats to reflect the neurodiversity of trans people because almost no neurodiverse trans people were allowed to get a diagnosis.

You'd just get blocked from even starting the discussion from the outset. I know several people who that happened to.

Ableism and transphobia go hand in hand, always.

Love your hyperbole 🦋

What are 'actual trans people'?

Nobody is literally born in the wrong body, so there are no 'actual trans people', are there?

Many people go through life with undiagnosed ADHD or autism. Many people, particularly girls, mask so no one actually realises they have autism. They copy the popular girls, so no one sees the signs. Many people with ADHD don't get diagnosed in childhood, they are the naughty ones who are often written off in life.
So, yes, people with autism or ADHD are likely to think they are 'born in the wrong body' because they and their needs have ignored.

at least 80% of children who feel this type of distress grow out of it without this life-altering medicalised pathway, that they are too young to comprehend anyway

So how many 'cis' (sorry!) children have had their reproductive function - and general health - damaged irreparably (in addition to the 'trans' children who endured side effects they could have been spared if they waited to 'transition' in adulthood)?

That's a price worth paying is it @ButterflyHatched ? Your utter callousness is enraging.

Well I just did a thumbs up on someone's post, and it now says, under the post on the reaction button, 'agree'.

I just got used to saying thank you!