CPS change the proposed 'sex by deception re gender' legal guidance

[Chariothorses]

Following public objections, the CPS announced yesterday they have changed the proposed legal guidance on Rape and Serious Sexual Offences (RASSO), specifically the guidance on “Deception as to gender”, which can be found in Chapter 6 Consent, to 'Deception as to sex'. Rape and Sexual Offences - Chapter 6: Consent | The Crown Prosecution Service.

The outcome of the consultation is available here: Consultation on the Deception as to Gender section in the Rape and Serious Sexual Offences (RASSO) legal guidance | The Crown Prosecution Service.

summary of consultation responses here: Consultation on CPS guidance on Deception as to Gender - Summary of Responses | The Crown Prosecution Service.

There are ongoing problems re ideological capture by trans lobbyists and misogyny within the CPS so thanks to all who contributed to the changes they have reluctantly introduced.

It's all levels of wrong, and no one party is innocent. Every single party should've been convicted of a crime.

Seems like boy received oral sex from girl, secretly filmed it to boast to his friends, found out girl was actually a boy, completely embarrassed by friends, launches violent assault on male victim to save face and reassert his heterosexuality and masculinity.

As had been said many times sex by deception is dangerous for MtF trans as you potentially face a violent outcome. It doesn't justify the violence, it just acknowledges reality.

“victim denied it having previously been attacked in the past.”

So the person who was stabbed had been previously attacked and believed that ‘stealth’ and denial when asked was the answer. There are so many vulnerable children and young people being failed by so called ‘elders’ who take on counselling roles when they are deeply ideological themselves and have no fucking understanding of safeguarding.

From the independent article it would appear that the transwomen thought that he was going to beat up the woman who stabbed (betts-ramsey) him but it was a setup to get him.
Also from the phone conversation with betts-ramsey it appears that she was motivated by both the sexual assault and transphobia

So the person who was stabbed had been previously attacked and believed that ‘stealth’ and denial when asked was the answer. There are so many vulnerable children and young people being failed by so called ‘elders’ who take on counselling roles when they are deeply ideological themselves and have no fucking understanding of safeguarding.

Yes, definitely.

Awful behaviour from everyone which was started by the transwoman committing sexual assault.

God, the whole thing is such a mess.

A boy who thinks he's a girl deceiving another boy into sex. That boy thinking it's okay to film the sex act and post it online. All his mates gleefully goading him for not realising. A girl concealing a knife in a care home. And them all utterly determined to brutally beat and stab the trans identified boy.

Should the boy have obtained sex by deception? No, of course not. But my God, every single one of these children has been failed beyond belief.

Knives in care homes, secretly posting sex acts online, quite prepared to go to jail for gleefully stabbing a peer.

What with that and the multiple rapes of girls being swept under the carpet, sometimes it really does feel as though society is irredeemably out of control.

Indeed.
They all show a disgusting lack of respect towards each other.

Secretly filming and distributing a ‘girl’ performing a sex act.
Deceiving a sex partner about your sex
threatening with a knife
Verbal abuse and threats on all sides.

And finally the violent attack.

The time line of events seem inconsistent in some ways - the victim of the stabbing seems to have thought that they were going skating with a group where they were known to have deceived the 17 year old male into a sex act. All on the same group chat? Where the deception was exposed and where the victim told a young woman that they were going to beat her up because that young woman called the victim a 'man' on the group chat?

Did the victim think that this was all just 'bants' and could assess the seriousness of it all? Including threatening to beat up the young woman? And that all was forgotten and they would all go off skating?

It is all a horrific mess.

The time line of events seem inconsistent in some ways - the victim of the stabbing seems to have thought that they were going skating with a group where they were known to have deceived the 17 year old male into a sex act.

How I understand it:

Organising the skating trip was the reason for the "trans" teenager joining the Snapchat in the first place as they were invited, where they got into flirty conversation with the guy they deceived and who illegally shared the act on social media and threatened them, Bradley Harris.

Following the sex act, the trans teen apologised to Harris for deceiving him, and still thought they were ok to go to the roller skating party, and they all had an argument on Facebook and other boys pretended to back the "trans" teenager up against Summer Betts-Ramsey, but this was a ruse to set up the attack.

Did the victim think that this was all just 'bants' and could assess the seriousness of it all? Including threatening to beat up the young woman? And that all was forgotten and they would all go off skating?

Yes it looks like that's exactly what was thought, and the impression the gang gave.

Sorry Helle, meant to quote you in that last post.

The trans teen clearly underestimated how visceral the reaction can be to sexual assault, sex by deception and sex with the wrong sex partner.
Though they were also the victim of the non consensual video sharing. What a mess.

Yes, I wonder if that's a thing. There was a trans identified man on here who couldn't quite grasp how being deceived into sex with someone of the wrong sex could absolutely produce feelings of repulsion.

Also, the trans identified boy might well have been confused about exactly how much his actual sex was an issue. Everyone being forced to pretend that men are actually women, or else you'll get fired, beaten, arrested, etc, is bound to have confused a whole host of youngsters.

The sad thing is as some trans posters on this thread have admitted that they actively encourage young trans people to lie and embark on sexual relationships by deception, it's a recipe for disaster

Oh I see. That is shit.

Some people seem to have struggled to understand that sex by deception is sexual assault.

Well, if you believe that people are only interested in sex with how someone 'looks' versus the entire package including knowing what sex category the body the person you are about to have sex with is, you can dismiss it as we have repeatedly seen. That the person's sex is irrelevant. All that matters is an attractive body with orifices or appendages for producing sensation.

You (general) can philosophise the need to know what sex someone is away with all the queer theory and post modernism you can want.

Exactly. "It's a blow job, whats the difference in a girl doing it, or a male identifying as one?" But that's not how most people think and society pretending that they do is a recipe for trouble.

I also wonder how society has moved from the decades-ago scandal of children in care being thrown out at 16 and left to negotiate the system, to this case where a young woman of 19, too old for most sanctions, is still in care.

Obviously (as expected) a lot of media outlets are positioning this as a transphobic crime and minimising the sex by deception element. It appears that the original twitter outrage was similar.

Either people minimise the sex by deception to create a one-sided argument or people believe that it is acceptable.

It is a truly horrible, violent case.

At the root of it all is lies - lies that it is possible to change sex and that those who wish to be the opposite sex just have to decide to be and everyone else must and will validate that lie and accept the person has changed sex. The lie that declaration of actual sex is not necessary because TWAW, TMAM if they say so.

This is the tragic result of those lies.

All these lies need to stop, lies to children and young people, lies to adults otherwise more cases like this will happen and surely no-one wants that?

Were all the young people involved in the care system?

It does demonstrate the danger of tw trying to go stealth. If they want a sexual relationship they have a choice of brief hook-ups, then ghosting their partner, or violent reactions like this one at worst or painful break-ups possibly with a police report at best if they try for a longer relationship. Perhaps they dream that, once he's got to know them, love will conquer all?

Poor kid. The punishment definitely does not fit the crime. This could so easily have been a murder case. They were all lucky. Although it's possibly the only bit of luck these young people may have had in their lives. Regardless, I suspect the judge will throw the book at them.

It does demonstrate the danger of tw trying to go stealth. If they want a sexual relationship they have a choice of brief hook-ups, then ghosting their partner, or violent reactions like this one at worst or painful break-ups possibly with a police report at best if they try for a longer relationship. Perhaps they dream that, once he's got to know them, love will conquer all?

That doesn't justify sexual assault by deception, just like the filming and sharing on social media and the threats and premeditation and eventual gang violence and horrific attack wasn't justified. None of this is justified and people shouldn't be encouraged to believe it's ok to lie to people about your sex.

Not saying you are doing that, but the media and courts shouldn't be downplaying that element.

I agree. I think, as in so many things, honesty is the best policy.