Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ban on puberty blockers to be made indefinite on experts’ advice

291 replies

IDareSay · 11/12/2024 13:54

Good news, just released:

“The Commission on Human Medicines (CHM) has provided independent expert advice that there is currently an unacceptable safety risk in the continued prescription of puberty blockers to children. It recommends indefinite restrictions while work is done to ensure the safety of children and young people.”

www.gov.uk/government/news/ban-on-puberty-blockers-to-be-made-indefinite-on-experts-advice

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
IdylicDay · 13/12/2024 04:42

ButterflyHatched · 12/12/2024 18:02

Is that why you spend your evenings online arguing with marginalised minorities about how you want to take away their rights and protections against discrimination, routes of access to meaningful healthcare, and opportunities to address sources of great distress before they become permanent?

Again, males are not 'marginalised' nor a 'minority'. We've already been through this.

And the one wanting to take rights and protections away from an ACTUAL vulnerable and marginalised group is you.

MrBungle · 13/12/2024 05:26

ButterflyHatched · 12/12/2024 23:40

Sorry mate, not engaging if you're going to move onto the slurs.

That’s not a slur. “Trans women” are men. I don’t believe in gender identity and therefore I don’t use the phrase. I use the phrase teams identified men because that’s what they are.

answer the question, don’t avoid it. Quote the UN with links.

IdylicDay · 13/12/2024 05:42

ButterflyHatched · 11/12/2024 15:44

Playing the science angle with this one is a hell of a gamble, and doing so by banning treatment in full knowledge of the devastating impact it will have is astonishingly irresponsible - as has been clearly demonstrated by the cowardly arse-covering statement about targeted MH support. You don't say that if you don't already know what you are doing.

They know exactly what the outcome is going to be. They've talked to us. They've talked to the children who are following in our footsteps. They've talked to field experts. They've read the reports. They've heard the anguish of grieving parents. They know, and they are already in damage control mode.

Absolute ghouls. Sacrificing another generation to placate the reactionary mob.

We will never forget.

Its PRECISELY because they have spoken to parents, to children, to clinicians and experts and look at the studies that they HAVE arrived at this decision.

You just don't like that the facts from all of these sectors led to the overwhelming consensus that PBs are dangerous.

You're the ghouls. And you will one day soon pay for advocating this dangerous sterilising and castrating and butchering ideology. You will pay.

IdylicDay · 13/12/2024 05:47

ButterflyHatched · 11/12/2024 16:06

I do, which is why I continue to be horrified by the abject rejection of three decades worth of evidence in order to ban an existing treatment (but only for new patients since it is apparently safe enough to allow existing ones to continue taking it) in order to run a clinical trial that will actively deny a life-saving treatment to half of its participants while pretending they are getting it.

Do you have any idea what that would feel like? Do you understand the inhuman callousness of doing that? What data do they think they're going to get?

Those kids are going to grow up in the full knowledge that they have been callously sacrificed to answer a rhetorical question, not a scientific one.

Except there is NOT...ONE study or bit of evidence that supports their use. NOT....ONE. And you know it, which is why you can't post any.

All the decades of evidence prove overwhelmingly that puberty blockers are very dangerous and cause serious health problems. That proof, is overwhelming.

Hence, the move to ban them. Based on SCIENCE and MEDICAL EVIDENCE. And you, cannot deny that.

IdylicDay · 13/12/2024 05:54

ButterflyHatched · 11/12/2024 16:37

No, I object to torturing children by saying they are getting time-critical life-changing treatment which they know full well is their sole ticket to escaping a life of direct transphobia, but actually witholding it for some of them.

I wholeheartedly support letting kids choose whether or not to take it and recording the long-term outcomes of either in detail.

There is no need for a ban to do that. What purpose does a ban serve if it's safe enough to run a trial and safe enough for current patients to continue?

It's a flex; an appeasement gesture. A sacrifice.

Not all women who took Thalidomide had children with deformities. Thalidomide was very beneficial to many, many women. Lets bring it back. Its 'bigoted' to ban it outright.

Same with lobotomies.

How far do you want to go?

IdylicDay · 13/12/2024 06:03

ButterflyHatched · 11/12/2024 17:44

So you'll join both Baroness Cass and myself in supporting the provision of treatments for those for whom there is clear benefit and hoping that they will continue to be available in future for this purpose?

So you admit Cass didn't 'send generations of kids into despair' then?

IdylicDay · 13/12/2024 06:12

ButterflyHatched · 12/12/2024 10:25

Would you like to hear what someone who did take PB's has to say on the subject?

We've heard the personal testimonies of quite a few who did take PBs and how it destroyed their health and life.

IdylicDay · 13/12/2024 06:16

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

pinkgrevillea · 13/12/2024 06:19

And in Australia, the Walkley Award is won by 'Scars of Regret' - reported in the Guardian no less.

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/gallery/2024/oct/11/a-year-in-focus-walkley-award-photographic-finalists-2024-in-pictures

IdylicDay · 13/12/2024 06:25

ButterflyHatched · 12/12/2024 11:19

Do you disagree with Baroness Cass who has said on-record that:

-She hopes that for those "where there is a clear, clinical view" that the medical pathway is best will still receive that.
-She emphasised that a medical pathway, with lifetime implications and treatment, required caution but "it's really important to say that a cis outcome and a trans outcome have equal value"
-She expressed concern that her review was being weaponized to suggest that trans people do not exist, saying "that's really disappointing to me that that happens, because that's absolutely not what we're saying." She also clarified that her review was not about defining what trans means or rolling back health care, stating "There are young people who absolutely benefit from a medical pathway, and we need to make sure that those young people have access — under a research protocol, because we need to improve the research — but not assume that that's the right pathway for everyone."

Because it sounds like you do and I would like to understand your stance clearly.

So, you are admitting Cass did not 'lead generations of children into despair' then? You agree with her?

IdylicDay · 13/12/2024 06:42

ButterflyHatched · 12/12/2024 22:06

The UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights disagrees with you

The UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights believes males are a marginalised minority? Really? I'd like to see the evidence for that.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 13/12/2024 08:30

ButterflyHatched · 12/12/2024 22:06

The UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights disagrees with you

So what? They don't think it's necessary for there to be a word for female people, they don't think female people who want to have a word for themselves should be allowed to do so, they think female people who say no to male people in their spaces are the oppressors, and they think Monroe Bergdorf is an appropriate person to represent women. So they can get fucked, quite frankly. They're sure as hell not doing anything to look out for my human rights. Only yours.

fromorbit · 13/12/2024 09:26

Important article on the debate within Labour exploring the division between Streeting, LGBT Labour and Labour for Trans Rights.

NHS puberty blockers ban: Fresh party trans row as LGBT+ Labour sounds alarm – LabourList
https://labourlist.org/2024/12/lgbt-labour-trans-puberty-blockers-ban-wes-streeting/

The article mentions Meadows, but doesn't mention unpleasant Meadows threat to commit suicide yesterday on X because of this decision. As we all know this kind of suicidal ideation is awful, and also untrue. Gender distreessed youth are not going to kill themselves in droves no matter how much people like Meadows push them towards it.

Georgia Meadows
@MsGrgaMeadows
This is a step towards systematically ingraining the indignities that trans people in this country face. I cannot hope to describe the depth of depression this policy will cause.

People will consider suicide, I already am. Many will attempt it.

LGBT Labour and Labour for Trans Rights are deeply divided and Streeting is coming out way ahead.

NHS puberty blockers ban: Fresh party trans row as LGBT+ Labour sounds alarm – LabourList

Labour’s stance on puberty blockers has sparked a row in the party, with the party’s LGBT+ group expressing “deep concerns” at the move to permanently…

https://labourlist.org/2024/12/lgbt-labour-trans-puberty-blockers-ban-wes-streeting

Brainworm · 13/12/2024 09:42

Georgia Meadows, whether conscious or unconscious of it, is using emotional blackmail to try and over-ride reasoned decision making.

Sitting within the trans-umbrella is an array of disturbed and disturbing people. There are many who experience gender distress and are overwhelmed by their thoughts and feelings and may consider suicide a tempting solution to stop the anguish. These people need psychological help and a law relating to puberty blockers is not the cause or solution to their mental health crisis. There are others who experience narcissistic rage when exposed to a boundary and the 'new' law has enraged them to an extent that they are trying to manipulate in any way they can, including emotional blackmail.

WS did well to point out that his decision will cause distress to many, and whilst he would like to avoid this, it is unavoidable.

Gender distress impacts whole families and the belief that everything would be fine if only puberty was paused is a false lifeline, but one that many cling to. These families need and should be accessing support to help them all navigate the very real challenges they struggle to manage.

Thingybob · 13/12/2024 10:36

"Sitting within the trans-umbrella is an array of disturbed and disturbing people"

As much as I pity these people why do political parties (and other organisations) still elevate them to positions of power.

GM is a Labour Councillor, sits on various Labour Party committees and was a selected parliament candidate before choosing to step down.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2024 10:43

I think Wes comes across very well to the average bystander who isn't invested in "trans rights". He's certainly gone up in my estimation for how he's handled this.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 13/12/2024 11:09

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2024 10:43

I think Wes comes across very well to the average bystander who isn't invested in "trans rights". He's certainly gone up in my estimation for how he's handled this.

I think he's a pragmatist who doesn't want to sacrifice his long term political career on the altar of gender ideology because he can see which way the wind is blowing, so he's decided to be one of the first people to publicly inject some sanity back into the proceedings.

Justme56 · 13/12/2024 11:46

According to Maxine on BBC Newsbeat (who went abroad to get PBs) they are fine as it stopped them from growing a beard etc.

https://x.com/journalismseen/status/1867523781599932789?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

x.com

https://x.com/journalismseen/status/1867523781599932789?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

BonfireLady · 13/12/2024 11:49

fromorbit · 13/12/2024 09:26

Important article on the debate within Labour exploring the division between Streeting, LGBT Labour and Labour for Trans Rights.

NHS puberty blockers ban: Fresh party trans row as LGBT+ Labour sounds alarm – LabourList
https://labourlist.org/2024/12/lgbt-labour-trans-puberty-blockers-ban-wes-streeting/

The article mentions Meadows, but doesn't mention unpleasant Meadows threat to commit suicide yesterday on X because of this decision. As we all know this kind of suicidal ideation is awful, and also untrue. Gender distreessed youth are not going to kill themselves in droves no matter how much people like Meadows push them towards it.

Georgia Meadows
@MsGrgaMeadows
This is a step towards systematically ingraining the indignities that trans people in this country face. I cannot hope to describe the depth of depression this policy will cause.

People will consider suicide, I already am. Many will attempt it.

LGBT Labour and Labour for Trans Rights are deeply divided and Streeting is coming out way ahead.

Fucking hell.

I haven't read the article but I've read the direct quote. It's an incitement that isn't too dissimilar to what a build up to Waco or Jonestown must have looked like. Only this time its online and the core belief isn't god, it's the idea that we've all got a gender identity.

I hope this gets cracked down on in a similar way to how a religious call of this sort would.

This is so dangerous to vulnerable children and young people who are already feeling distressed about themselves.

It's "look what you made me do" on what could be an unfathomable scale.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2024 11:53

I haven't read the article but I've read the direct quote. It's an incitement that isn't too dissimilar to what a build up to Waco or Jonestown must have looked like. Only this time it's online and the core belief isn't god, it's the idea that we've all got a gender identity.

Yes, was watching a documentary about Waco just yesterday. It's not new but I agree it's escalating.

duc748 · 13/12/2024 11:57

Thingybob · 13/12/2024 10:36

"Sitting within the trans-umbrella is an array of disturbed and disturbing people"

As much as I pity these people why do political parties (and other organisations) still elevate them to positions of power.

GM is a Labour Councillor, sits on various Labour Party committees and was a selected parliament candidate before choosing to step down.

Threatening to 'thcream and thecream until I thick', indeed.

SinnerBoy · 13/12/2024 12:02

ButterflyHatched · Yesterday 22:06

The UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights disagrees with you

Along with Tara Hudson, Karen White, Isla Bryson.

BonfireLady · 13/12/2024 12:07

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2024 11:53

I haven't read the article but I've read the direct quote. It's an incitement that isn't too dissimilar to what a build up to Waco or Jonestown must have looked like. Only this time it's online and the core belief isn't god, it's the idea that we've all got a gender identity.

Yes, was watching a documentary about Waco just yesterday. It's not new but I agree it's escalating.

It's not new but I agree it's escalating.

Exactly.

Jolyon too. I had a peep on X earlier this morning to see how it was all playing out. Here's a slightly crass post from Wings of Scotland. Unfortunately Jolyon has blocked me:

https://x.com/WingsScotland/status/1867230532977012978?t=4P85D6OlsJ4cBJOCGudEhA&s=19

I saw Alice Littman's mum too:

https://x.com/alicemydaughter/status/1867179720942489700?t=6tA7Yg4tIcTXABK3LQ2OsQ&s=19

From memory, Alice would have been outside the scope of the Louis Appleby work because of a) already getting "gender affirming" cross-sex hormones from a private pathway and b) not being within the age range for puberty blockers. I feel desperately sad for Caroline but this is irresponsible.

I wonder if Georgia Tennant will pop up and contribute to it.

This needs urgent action from the government. They've got everything they need to come down hard on this.

lifeturnsonadime · 13/12/2024 12:21

BonfireLady · 13/12/2024 12:07

It's not new but I agree it's escalating.

Exactly.

Jolyon too. I had a peep on X earlier this morning to see how it was all playing out. Here's a slightly crass post from Wings of Scotland. Unfortunately Jolyon has blocked me:

https://x.com/WingsScotland/status/1867230532977012978?t=4P85D6OlsJ4cBJOCGudEhA&s=19

I saw Alice Littman's mum too:

https://x.com/alicemydaughter/status/1867179720942489700?t=6tA7Yg4tIcTXABK3LQ2OsQ&s=19

From memory, Alice would have been outside the scope of the Louis Appleby work because of a) already getting "gender affirming" cross-sex hormones from a private pathway and b) not being within the age range for puberty blockers. I feel desperately sad for Caroline but this is irresponsible.

I wonder if Georgia Tennant will pop up and contribute to it.

This needs urgent action from the government. They've got everything they need to come down hard on this.

Edited

i don't know how tweets like Joylon's don't at least result in him being debarred professionally.

Have people forgotten Bridgend?

People like Joylon will have blood on their hands THEN blame it on the PB ban.

It is escalating. These kids are vulnerable already, as we know. This is abhorrent beyond belief.

RethinkingLife · 13/12/2024 12:28

These kids are vulnerable already, as we know. This is abhorrent beyond belief.

JM et al are Solomon Grundy-ing or Zuleika Dobson-ing distressed children and young people. As people repeatedly emphasise, this couldn't be more contrary to guidance in this area.

Swipe left for the next trending thread