Ban on puberty blockers to be made indefinite on experts’ advice

[IDareSay]

Good news, just released:

“The Commission on Human Medicines (CHM) has provided independent expert advice that there is currently an unacceptable safety risk in the continued prescription of puberty blockers to children. It recommends indefinite restrictions while work is done to ensure the safety of children and young people.”

www.gov.uk/government/news/ban-on-puberty-blockers-to-be-made-indefinite-on-experts-advice

By Tammy Hymas, Head of Communications and Advocacy at Mermaids.

Totes impartial then.

Shameful indeed.

She's conflated an on-demand access to (unevidenced) puberty blockers with access to the mental health care pathway in the Cass recommendations.

Yes, distressed children need urgently improved access to neutral mental health care, that unpicks their distress in a differential diagnosis approach. Looking at autism, trauma and other possible triggers for the body dysphoria. There's no need to challenge or affirm the child's gender identity in this approach.

But no, nobody needs an affirmation pathway and to be put in a position of fear, where they believe that without puberty blockers they aren't getting care.

Is that why you spend your evenings online arguing with marginalised minorities about how you want to take away their rights and protections against discrimination, routes of access to meaningful healthcare, and opportunities to address sources of great distress before they become permanent?

Please get your story straight. I thought the whole point was that there isn't enough evidence to say either way?

opportunities to address sources of great distress before they become permanent

This is the typical older male transitioner fantasy - "if only I'd had access to puberty blockers, I'd have a female-facsimile body today".

It ignores the fact that blockers aren't magic, and we cannot turn males into females. The reality of a male puberty blockade and subsequent feminising transition is a lot less enticing and a lot less convincing than Butter's wish-fulfilment fantasy.

And it also ignores that the majority of adolescents seeking these drugs are female, for whom the considerations are entirely different. It's difficult to see adolescent female use of these drugs as anything other than an act of self-harm comparable to cutting or an eating disorder. Especially given the well-attested negative effects on mental health, IQ, bone health, fertility, sexual function.

No not even slightly. There is more than enough evidence to say that carrying out further studies would be unethical.

stop ignoring everyone’s points.

No one is doing those things.

puberty blockers don’t make anyone pass. They reduce your IQ, sexual function, bone density and a number of other things

But they never help you pass as another sex.

nobody ever passes. You don’t pass.

My endocrine system was never balanced. It started puberty late and changes were very sluggish and halfhearted.

I'm not fertile but I was never going to be. There was never going to be a path ahead that would have resulted in the body you are presenting as a sacred natural path.

It is not self-denial to make an informed decision about your future based upon the information you have at the time and the very clear distress you feel about the developmental pathway your body is halfheartedly trying to drag you down.

I don't have a great deal in common with people who never experienced gender incongruence in childhood but I believe they should also be allowed to access treatment if they need it.

I beg you to reconsider your words about familial impact; they are not universal at all and transition is not a selfish, destructive act any more than revelations about any other facet of a person's life and identity are. My family took a while to be convinced - they were rightly concerned about making sure I made the correct decisions - but they listened with an open mind and even if they did not always understand at the time, they supported me as best they could. We have retained a wonderful relationship over the years and see each other frequently.

I'm looking forward to spending a lovely, wholesome Christmas in their company.

I suppose the silver lining of your continuing to believe that is that you are far less likely to accidentally harass me when I breeze past in the street.

Ok, whatever you say. Please keep believing that if it brings you comfort and peace. I'll continue living my life.

My endocrine system was never balanced. It started puberty late and changes were very sluggish and halfhearted.

Was that the puberty blockers that you said you had and are advocating for Butterfly?

Do you believe anorexics should be allowed to be prescribed weight loss drugs?

because we really can’t see the difference.

you couldn’t make informed consent. Children now cannot make informed consent. I’m certain nobody under at least 25 can either.

This article confuses me a little

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2024/1212/1486109-child-gender-dysphoria-ireland/

but what i'm taking from it is that Ireland has misgivings, is proceeding extremely cautiously and the tras are throwing their toys out of their prams.

You're not a marginalised minority. You currently have more rights than actual women do.

I don't spend whole evenings. I'd say you seem to spend far more time than me.

What concerns me most is the rights and protections of women and girls, and children more generally. I have been a teacher and a counsellor in my time, and I'm well aware of the nature of identity formation and of human suffering. Also as a woman who has inevitably lived an embodied female experience I am deeply offended by the suggestion that males are also women.

Be yourself, but don't claim to be something you are not. There is nothing to stop you campaigning for your own specialist and discrete provsiions.

Where there is a physical condition such as a DSD, there may be justification for a physical intervention, though the least invasive would nearly always be my preference. When there is no known physical problem, it is unusual to say the least to consider a surgical solution. In the case of a hormonal imbalance, I would expect an endocrinologist to prefer a subtle adjustment over a drastic change to the body's workings. It is really worrying when a ideological position is taken that says people have a right to do whatever they like to their bodies, facilitated by doctors. We do not treat people with gender issues the same way we treat people with other psychological problems.

Familial impact is very real. It is caused by a number of things. First, it is a shock when someone very close to you says that they are really someone else, not the person you know and love. That in itself may take a long time to come to terms with, but certainly in my case my immediate reaction was to assure my son that I will always love him.

Secondly, the familial impact is heavily compounded by the self righteous activists and allies, who think they know everything. When someone imposes their self perception on everyone around them and demands that they be treated as if their self perception is reality and everyone else's perception is wrong and comes from bigotry and hatred, there is a big problem.

Other factors are the very real fear of losing a loved one to a "chosen family" who will not be there when life gets really tough, but are superficially attractive because they affirm and affirm and affirm, and the fear of a loved one going down a dangerous and physically destructive medical or even surgical path. No-one knows in advance whether cross sex hormones or surgery will cause serious physical problems, or whether it will lead to regret (a rather weak word for the ongoing nightmare some experience).

I'm glad your family listened with an open mind. So do I, but no-one has been able to present a coherent rationale as to why "gender dysphoria" or a wish to be the other sex requires us to deny that our son is my son, or why oestrogen is a good idea, or why anyone should try to change physical reality, or why our having a different (and perfectly rational) understanding of gender and sex is cause for estrangement. I'm still listening.

No I don't.

I can see a very clear difference. If you cannot then I recommend leaving these difficult decisions to those who are capable of doing so.

I was more than capable of informed consent. By the age of 25 I was a qualified professional. Don't be ridiculous - we recruit people into organisations that train them to make life or death decisions in combat at the age of 16 and send them to active warzones at the age of 18.

No. I was already halfway there before being prescribed them.

The UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights disagrees with you

What is the very clear difference?

Before the age of 25 you don’t lack the maturity to make these decisions.

spell out for me the difference between telling an anorexic they are fat and giving them weight loss drugs

and telling an adolescent they really are the opposite sex saying puberty blockers will solve their problems.

Do quote them please with links.

trans identified men have more apparent rights in the uk than women

Sorry mate, not engaging if you're going to move onto the slurs.

The UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights disagrees with you

Link please. Also, the UN Special Rapporteur against Violence against Women and Girls disagrees with you.

This isn't about you. This is about children who do not have DSDs, who would develop into healthy, fertile adults if they weren't prescribed this harmful medication.

I don't have a great deal in common with people who never experienced gender incongruence in childhood but I believe they should also be allowed to access treatment if they need it.

As a male with a DSD, you have absolutely nothing at all in common with girls who suddenly decide in adolescence that they want to be boys due to social contagion, as a result of sexual abuse or because they are same-sex attracted. They don't need any treatment other than support with their mental health.

Once again: this isn't about you. You have no understanding of what is happening to these girls. Leave the discussion about them to women who have far greater understanding, because we were once teenage girls ourselves and can identify to some extent with the thoughts and experiences that lead them down this path. You have no idea.

If you want to discuss whether these drugs should ever be given to children with DSDs, I suggest you start your own thread. This one is about the vast majority of children who don't have DSDs, so have nothing in common with your very unusual experience.