Could we ban "transvestigating" threads on here?

[Christinapple]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5225715-ilona-maher

This one for example. Transvestigating is an informal term given to when people play detective and try to determine if a given person (usually a woman) is transgender or not from how they look e.g. photos.

I've seen it more than a few times on Twitter anytime a woman who is tall or muscular or "masculine looking" appears. Quite often, women are wrongly mistaken for being trans.

As well as being transphobic, IMO this harms all women and reinforces stereotypes of what men/women should look like. And the idea of obsessing over people's appearances like this just doesn't sit well with me.

does Prison Onset Gender Dysphoria count as a genuine effort?

So I think we both agree that Men-who-are-pretending-to-be-Transwomen should not be allowed access to women's spaces.

Men-who-are-pretending-to-be-Transwomen can also pretend to be 'proposing to undergo reassignment'
How can we keep women's spaces safe from these men?

Edited for clarity

Malcolm Clark has written a lot about the twisting of history by the RSOH.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1768427557425234010.html

https://malcolmrichardclark.substack.com/p/hirschfeld-the-dodgy-high-priest

https://www.thedistancemag.com/p/how-transgender-historians-give-magnus

BH’s struggle with logic, comprehension and seemingly genuinely not realising how their posts come across are not a good advert for having been on puberty blockers.

People can easily read back and see they you did not say what was implied. And the glaring hypocrisy of that particular poster saying “very, very bad look on any thread”.

I believe it was a failed attempt to distract from that poster levering themselves into Garlic’s experience for some kind of political gain. While trying to portray feminist actions and feminists as supporting nazi’s actions and claiming feminists deny the actions of the nazis.

I used to think it was a lack of self aware. Now I believe, there is full awareness behind every single post.

It's quite amazing how much academic twaddle - esp in the social sciences - makes statements that are either blindingly obvious or totally ridiculous once you translate it into English.

Roland Barthes and his 'strings' and 'signifiers' (sentences and words, to you and me) being a case in point.

Well what a derail.

@Greyskybluesky I agree that the posts regarding you have been particularly vile.

it IS deliberate. It's to wind us up and to move off the topic at hand which is 'transinvestigating' or in other words calling a man a man.

If trans women like Butterfly are really harmed and really put at risk by 'traninvestigation' then the best answer is to stay out of single sex spaces which were never designed for people who claim to be woman gender in the first place. These are single sex spaces not single gender spaces. These are specifically legislated for in the Equality Act.

I totally agree with Datun that the posts of Butterfly are very very deliberate.

Truth matters.

When someone tries to dress up disordered thinking with flourishes, it is just a sign they are trying to disguise disordered thinking or they erroneously believe they have an art for language. The disorder is very clear either way, overly flourished or not.

Imagine if a ‘great thinker’ merely wrote impenetrable prose that the real great thinkers deciphered and provided the real great thoughts, but were then never appropriately credited?

Yes going back to the original point, ‘transvestigation’ is the only way we

• demonstrate how many crimes currently ascribed to women were committed to men
• demonstrate how much danger women in prison are in from predatory men
• counter the myth that transw pass
• illustrate what we’re saying NO to

(not a comprehensive list)

I used to think it was a lack of self aware. Now I believe, there is full awareness behind every single post.

I totally agree with you @Helleofabore
Funny how we were prepared to give that poster the benefit of the doubt at first, wasn't it? Perhaps that's female conditioning, I don't know.

But yes, there is full awareness of what's being said. And I am sure the rambling and bombastic posts will continue on other threads. But we've all learnt a hell of a lot from this one. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

Easy answer to this one. Because it is absolutely despicable to make false claims about the Holocaust because you want to win an argument.
The Holocaust was real. Millions of people died horribly.
Using the deaths of those people and colonising the horror they went through because it is convenient to you is the lowest of the low.
It shows incredible disrespect to the people who died. You can 100% expect to be challenged on it by anyone with a shred of decency.

Thanks to all the patient, eloquent posters pointing out the inconsistencies and bs, time after time.

I cannot believe some of the tragedies (holocaust, mass rape to make two) that someone has attempted to use to leverage support for males in women's spaces. Abhorrent.

And as for taking a posters own personal terrible experience and making it all about them.... words fail me.

💐 for garlick

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them.”

Indeed!

It has been quite some time since I believed that this was a lack of self awareness. I believe that as more of us realised, that is when the behaviour escalated. I reckon if we went back through, you would be able to track it. It is now clearly abusive.

I used to think it was a lack of self aware. Now I believe, there is full awareness behind every single post.

I totally agree with you @Helleofabore
Funny how we were prepared to give that poster the benefit of the doubt at first, wasn't it? Perhaps that's female conditioning, I don't know.

Not just this poster, either. Any time you see a trans rights activist online say something really offensive, outrageous, supposedly ironic or tone deaf, remember what @Datun said at 15.55 yesterday on this thread.

It was a great demonstration of how abusive the males who feel they are ‘True Trans’ because they think they pass are when women say no.

We don’t need to rely on the clues of body shape, handsize, foot size, gait, height, Adams apple, brow line and all the other visual clues or all the auditory clues. Their maleness is obvious from their anonymous postings and we don’t want any of them in women’s spaces.

What mask????

Their maleness is obvious from their anonymous postings

Yes. This is what I was referring to ages ago on this thread when I spoke of "markers". The poster did not take that comment well.

Forgot to mention my view of BH's claim of being a feminist.

I see this as similar to using women's toilet facilities - feminism is a female-only space. So attempting to enter that space is about validation. No helpful action is taken or even considered because helping women is not the aim. And even arguing with feminists about feminism must feel good.

You are completely right. I did get myself drawn in. It's easily done. No one can be this un-self aware.
I think its about getting a little thrill from pushing those boundaries, upsetting women, getting us to say no so he can keep refusing to accept that no. Pretty creepy, really.

Reposting Datun’s 15.55 post

I now see males claiming to be feminists as a red flag

German here. You're either misinformed or lying. The actual court ruling you are referring to concluded that a) there is zero factual basis for assuming targeted persecution of transpeople in the 3rd Reich but b) nevertheless declined to impose libel sanctions for a "holocaust denial" hash tag if used by TRAs because it's somehow excusable polemics.

It doesn’t matter whether they are claiming to be women or not, that male claim to be feminists nearly always seems to be about suppressing women’s voices