Could we ban "transvestigating" threads on here?

[Christinapple]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5225715-ilona-maher

This one for example. Transvestigating is an informal term given to when people play detective and try to determine if a given person (usually a woman) is transgender or not from how they look e.g. photos.

I've seen it more than a few times on Twitter anytime a woman who is tall or muscular or "masculine looking" appears. Quite often, women are wrongly mistaken for being trans.

As well as being transphobic, IMO this harms all women and reinforces stereotypes of what men/women should look like. And the idea of obsessing over people's appearances like this just doesn't sit well with me.

@Thenimbletiger Enough with the patronising. I'd hazard a guess that most women on here know people who describe themselves as trans people, sometimes they are work colleagues who are trying to disrupt the workplace, sometimes they are our children. You, on the other hand, don't seem to have understood the issue at all.

I don't like it either, especially since I'm 5 foot 9 so could also be questioned despite being a biological woman. But then what would you like to ban next? All threads you don't agree with? Or threads that trigger you? Or just the ones that offend you? The point of MN is free speech (for the most part).

So you draw the line at women playing contact sports with biological males but everything else is fine?

Biological males sprinting or swimming against women and girls who have spent most of their lives training to be the best? Fine.

Biological males convicted of sex offences housed in women's prisons with vulnerable female prisoners who they then go on to assault and rape? Fine.

Biological males now having a choice between the male, female and mixed sex swimming ponds in Highgate whereas the women who can only swim in a single sex environment now have access to none? Fine.

NHS nurses having to get changed in a repurposed store room with no lock on the door because the NHS trust they worked for decided that their male colleague who displayed sexually inappropriate behaviour had a right to get changed in the women's changing rooms? Fine.

Given that the OP said during the Olympics, on this forum, "Imane Khelif is a woman, not a man", I think we can see why the OP doesn't want anyone discussing the sex of a person in the media.

I watched this video yesterday on one of Lia's teammates speaking out, they (biological women teammates) were told they weren't allowed to speak to the press about their views and that if they did they would be branded as transphobic and not be able to get jobs in the future. It's insane.
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• I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of you have never met a trans person in your life and the actually have on impact at all on your day to day life. It’s very keyboard warrior. *

Yet I see men dressed as women pretty much daily (in pubs, restaurants, at ice skating, folk dancing, in parks, at the university) , have met young women who think they're men, work with women's who are apparently on the trans spectrum.

Do you just not get out much?

Unfortunately this is the result of transactivism; one of its many negative consequences. As long as people continue to believe in, and push, the idea of a gendered soul ( and all of the pharmaceutical and surgical procedures that attempt to reinforce this) then this sort of 'investigation' is inevitable.

Maher everyone agrees is female. I thought the point the OP on that thread was making is that it's a shame the current situation made some of us do a double take to check that, that we can no longer take on trust that someone labelled as a female sporting hero is actually female. No serious investigating, everyone agreed that she is female, not least because rugby has proper rules. So another point in favour of sports having clear enforced rules. Nobody is left looking at athletes with suspicion.

The last threads were complaining about two boxers who had already been evidenced as male. No investigating required except from those determined to deny reality. All further evidence that has emerged has confirmed that initial view. Men endangering sportswomen and sports bodies refusing to do anything about it is absolutely a reasonable topic for a feminist forum.

THIS. ☝️

Well, you're wrong. People posting here come from a wide range of background and experience. Some have gender questioning children; or have been married to a man who has taken his cross dressing full time; some of us are teachers in schools in which other teachers are trans activists; some work in health and mental health or the counselling professions; some work in offices in which a male colleague has decided he's now a woman and expects everyone to comply.......And many/most of us also see and come across people who are clearly presenting as the opposite sex quite frequently......including in women's spaces - and we can form our own judgments.

Something does not have to materially impact on you every single day for it to be a fundamental issue of importance.

It's horrific the sheer number of XY's posing as XX convicted of serious sex crimes and other violent crimes.

These are XY and will always be XY.

Remember when women went over to Reddit and enforced their rules and views to destroy other groups' spaces and ability to discuss things of importance to them?

Me neither.

Another ‘shut up and go away’ poster?

I for one am very grateful to all the women who are prepared to take a stand and won’t turn a blind eye to this abusive misogyny we’ve slowly become accustomed to in recent years.

I’m sick to death of abusive men using new strategies to manipulate women in this way and very disappointed with those women who continue to support them despite all the evidence right in front of their noses. 🤨

"I've never known a group of people so obsessed with another group as mumsnetters are with transgender people."

Yes, Mumsnet is one of the few social media platforms where women are allowed to speak freely and discuss what they want to discuss without being shouted down or silenced by men. Good, isn't it?

This is just and version of saying we shouldnt challenge men in the changing room because theres a chance women could be challenged too.

Its a way to stop women talking.

I think Maher is a great example of how, in real life, we can always tell.

She's obviously huge and muscular and powerful and could pick Owen Jones up with one hand and shove him into the nearest bin without even grunting, and it's easy to see why people might question her sex if all they see is a few images of her in action on the rugby pitch, but as soon as you see footage of her actually talking, the fact that she is female is as plain as day.

I'd quite like to ban posters who dislike women having rights and child safeguarding being important. But free speech and all that means I understand they're entitled to express their distasteful views, display their lack of empathy and their limited understanding of the importance of safeguarding children. Amazing what living in a democracy involves. 🙄

It's way past due imo

Best to not talk about these things as our fragile female brains may become overloaded.

Go back to talking about cake recipes and kittens. Need to "know our limits"

I think this is what OP is after - 25 years imprisonment if you correctly identify the sex of men demanding we pretend they are women.

https://reduxx.info/exclusive-brazilian-feminist-facing-25-years-in-prison-after-calling-trans-politician-a-man/

I've seen it more than a few times on Twitter anytime a woman who is tall or muscular or "masculine looking" appears. Quite often, women are wrongly mistaken for being trans.

OP, that’s quite sweet that you’re so worried about women being mistaken for being trans. Are you sure your concern isn’t really about men not being mistaken for women? And the resulting hurty feelz?

How surprising that a TW wants to police our speech and enforce silence against men in women's spaces.

I've seen it more than a few times on Twitter anytime a woman who is tall or muscular or "masculine looking" appears. Quite often, women are wrongly mistaken for being trans.

I've seen men do it loads - and TRAs thinking they're being insulting. If someone wants to call me a man then they can - they're wrong, but they can say it, it's not insulting (unless they're trying to be insulting that is), just wrong. Or a woman in the toilet questions me, then go for it, thankyou for guarding our space.

My son went to the loo yesterday with his brother, and a man in there told him it was the men's (he has long hair) - he just said 'I know' and went to the toilet. No-one had a meltdown or was offended.

How about 'No'.

I do think it's a problem and I feel bad for the women who get caught up in it. Why am I not surprised though that, of all the solutions open to us, the op selects the one that involves telling women not to talk about it?