Page 38 | Could we ban "transvestigating" threads on here?

Christinapple · 2024-12-09T01:00:27+00:00

[[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5225715-ilona-maher https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5225715-ilona-maher]] This one for example. Transvestigating is an informal term given to when people play detective and try to determine if a given person (usually a woman) is transgender or not from how they look e.g. photos. I've seen it more than a few times on Twitter anytime a woman who is tall or muscular or "masculine looking" appears. Quite often, women are wrongly mistaken for being trans. As well as being transphobic, IMO this harms all women and reinforces stereotypes of what men/women should look like. And the idea of obsessing over people's appearances like this just doesn't sit well with me.

Datun · 13/12/2024 00:22

TrainedByKittens · 13/12/2024 00:19

So in conclusion @ButterflyHatched targeted two posters directly insinuating we had made holocaust denial posts and has had to backtrack and admit we hadn’t.

BH has also called women on FWR Nazi’s and had to backtrack and retract that claim.

BH has accused women on FWR of working for the far right and has had to backtrack and admit we weren’t.

BH has made claims about the Holocaust on this thread that they have been unable to back with evidence.

BH has co-opted a victims post about being raped and made it about BH and made claims about why the rape survivor made that post that were lies.

I’ve probably missed some others but @ButterflyHatched has thrown around false accusations and lied and lied and lied some more throughout this thread.

I’ve found their accusation of me personally distressing as has Greyskybluesky and I agree with Greyskybluesky an almost hidden ‘sorry’ in a longer post that makes further insinuations doesn’t cut it for such serious and unfounded accusations.

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Yes, it's quite easy to see the pattern, once you start looking.

Although don't forget the rules of misogyny

12. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.

Enough4me · 13/12/2024 00:27

What a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive?
It's difficult for people living a lie to see truth.

Greyskybluesky · 13/12/2024 00:28

ButterflyHatched · 13/12/2024 00:21

With the greatest of respect, this is your chance to not double down. Please take it. I beg you.

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You do not show any respect to me or anyone on here and you do not get to tell me how to act.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2024 00:29

Is anyone actually doubting what Datun said earlier still?

TrainedByKittens · 13/12/2024 00:31

It's difficult for people living a lie to see truth.

Interesting 🤔 I’ve never quite made that connection but yes if your fundamental statement about who you are is untrue what’s another untruth and another

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2024 00:34

You can learn a lot from reading what trans rights activists say. We all have.

ButterflyHatched · 13/12/2024 00:36

TrainedByKittens · 13/12/2024 00:19

So in conclusion @ButterflyHatched targeted two posters directly insinuating we had made holocaust denial posts and has had to backtrack and admit we hadn’t.

BH has also called women on FWR Nazi’s and had to backtrack and retract that claim.

BH has accused women on FWR of working for the far right and has had to backtrack and admit we weren’t.

BH has made claims about the Holocaust on this thread that they have been unable to back with evidence.

BH has co-opted a victims post about being raped and made it about BH and made claims about why the rape survivor made that post that were lies.

I’ve probably missed some others but @ButterflyHatched has thrown around false accusations and lied and lied and lied some more throughout this thread.

I’ve found their accusation of me personally distressing as has Greyskybluesky and I agree with Greyskybluesky an almost hidden ‘sorry’ in a longer post that makes further insinuations doesn’t cut it for such serious and unfounded accusations.

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No. I did not. As I made quite clear in my clarification. Greyskybluesky seems worryingly intent on circling this particular drain though. I've already begged her not to double down. I really hope she chooses not to. Because if she were to start actively claiming trans people were not victims of the holocaust then that would be a very, very bad look on any thread, but especially bad on one where we are trying to disprove any kind of involvement with the far right.
Please re-read what I said.
Please re-read what I said.
Are you disputing the events of the 6th/10th May 1933 happened? I've picked this particular example because there is a plethora of direct photographic evidence.
Please re-read the part where I was likened to an infamous rapist for keeping childhood medical treatment private, and then had the temerity to respond.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2024 00:37

You do not show any respect to me or anyone on here and you do not get to tell me how to act.

Well said

TrainedByKittens · 13/12/2024 00:42

ButterflyHatched · 13/12/2024 00:36

No. I did not. As I made quite clear in my clarification. Greyskybluesky seems worryingly intent on circling this particular drain though. I've already begged her not to double down. I really hope she chooses not to. Because if she were to start actively claiming trans people were not victims of the holocaust then that would be a very, very bad look on any thread, but especially bad on one where we are trying to disprove any kind of involvement with the far right.
Please re-read what I said.
Please re-read what I said.
Are you disputing the events of the 6th/10th May 1933 happened? I've picked this particular example because there is a plethora of direct photographic evidence.
Please re-read the part where I was likened to an infamous rapist for keeping childhood medical treatment private, and then had the temerity to respond.

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You have a problem with the truth, logic and comprehension.

Also I’d ask you to share any posts I’ve made with any references to specific events 6th/10th May 1933 except that you can’t because I haven’t made any so stop insinuating that I have.

I strongly suggest, for your own good, that you stop posting now.

ButterflyHatched · 13/12/2024 00:46

TrainedByKittens · 13/12/2024 00:42

You have a problem with the truth, logic and comprehension.

Also I’d ask you to share any posts I’ve made with any references to specific events 6th/10th May 1933 except that you can’t because I haven’t made any so stop insinuating that I have.

I strongly suggest, for your own good, that you stop posting now.

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I'm glad we both agree that the horrifying events of the 6th/10th May 1933 happened.

GailBlancheViola · 13/12/2024 00:53

ButterflyHatched · 12/12/2024 23:27

Mercifully, the Equality Act 2010 spares us from arguing the minutiae of definitions from base principles by clearly stating:

The Equality Act 2010 says that you must not be discriminated against because of gender reassignment.
In the Equality Act, gender reassignment means proposing to undergo, undergoing or having undergone a process to reassign your sex.
To be protected from gender reassignment discrimination, you do not need to have undergone any medical treatment or surgery to change from your birth sex to your preferred gender.
You can be at any stage in the transition process, from proposing to reassign your sex, undergoing a process of reassignment, or having completed it. It does not matter whether or not you have applied for or obtained a Gender Recognition Certificate, which is the document that confirms the change of a person's legal sex.
For example, a person who was born female and decides to spend the rest of their life as a man, and a person who was born male and has been living as a woman for some time and obtained a Gender Recognition Certificate, both have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

Thankyou, Harriet Harman!

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Nowhere does that say you or anyone claiming the characteristic of Gender Reassignment has carte blanche to enter women's spaces services or sports nor are those who have a GRC automatically entitled to do so.

It is not discrimination not to have access to spaces, services and sports that are not for your sex.

As was said in the Supreme Court recently - woman have human rights too and they have the right to safety, privacy, dignity and freedom from the male gaze.

TrainedByKittens · 13/12/2024 00:56

ButterflyHatched · 13/12/2024 00:46

I'm glad we both agree that the horrifying events of the 6th/10th May 1933 happened.

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I have made no posts/comments on the events of the 6th/10th May 1933.

Due to the bizarre way you twist what women say and make untrue accusations and insinuations I won’t be making any posts/comments on the events of the 6th/10th May 1933 here.

GailBlancheViola · 13/12/2024 01:07

@ButterflyHatched your targetting of GreyBlueSky is utterly abhorrent, you should be deeply ashamed of your behaviour towards her.

LizzieBowesLyon · 13/12/2024 01:24

ButterflyHatched · 12/12/2024 23:47

Wasn't for me either. Really tried not to be (well, I was a child at the time admittedly) but ultimately it wasn't something I could change about myself no matter how many times we went over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over it in talking therapy sessions.

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With kindness, that’s fucking madness.

For the record, I’m white, nearly blue, with a ginger mum. I’m Celtic at 100 paces. It really is like my declaring myself to be South Asian, or Jamaican or <insert something totally different>

Just cos I feeeeeeeeel it doesn’t make it real for everyone else, just me. And is therefore bonkers. A psychosis.

My dear friend’s dear mother had schizophrenia alongside a glittering academic career. She said one night “I know I’m not Jesus. I know this. But if I haven’t had some simple tablets within a few days no one, not even Jesus, could convince me otherwise.”

The world doesn’t have to buy into your view of it.

ButterflyHatched · 13/12/2024 01:32

GailBlancheViola · 13/12/2024 01:07

@ButterflyHatched your targetting of GreyBlueSky is utterly abhorrent, you should be deeply ashamed of your behaviour towards her.

Of all the things you could say I should be ashamed for, asking people not to start arguing that trans people weren't victims of Nazi atrocities is definitely the most insulting.

ButterflyHatched · 13/12/2024 01:37

LizzieBowesLyon · 13/12/2024 01:24

With kindness, that’s fucking madness.

For the record, I’m white, nearly blue, with a ginger mum. I’m Celtic at 100 paces. It really is like my declaring myself to be South Asian, or Jamaican or <insert something totally different>

Just cos I feeeeeeeeel it doesn’t make it real for everyone else, just me. And is therefore bonkers. A psychosis.

My dear friend’s dear mother had schizophrenia alongside a glittering academic career. She said one night “I know I’m not Jesus. I know this. But if I haven’t had some simple tablets within a few days no one, not even Jesus, could convince me otherwise.”

The world doesn’t have to buy into your view of it.

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Didn't take long for that mask to fall off, did it?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2024 01:55

What mask?

Snowypeaks · 13/12/2024 01:55

LURKERS:
Transgender was not a category in the 1930s and the Nazis did not target transvestites.
Saying that "trans people" were victims is to imply that trans people as a group were targeted for being trans. This is not true. People who liked apples or those who could knit were victims of the Nazis, but that is not why they were imprisoned, murdered or tortured.
For example, the man who identified as a woman who was attracted to men, whom Haddy mentioned a while ago, was simply a homosexual male and that will have been the reason for his internment.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2024 01:58

Saying that "trans people" were victims is to imply that trans people as a group were targeted for being trans. This is not true. People who liked apples or those who could knit were victims of the Nazis, but that is not why they were imprisoned, murdered or tortured.

Exactly, and I was going to say something similar. Some people we would now call "trans" were victims, but they were targeted for other reasons identified by the Nazis.

ButterflyHatched · 13/12/2024 02:13

Snowypeaks · 13/12/2024 01:55

LURKERS:
Transgender was not a category in the 1930s and the Nazis did not target transvestites.
Saying that "trans people" were victims is to imply that trans people as a group were targeted for being trans. This is not true. People who liked apples or those who could knit were victims of the Nazis, but that is not why they were imprisoned, murdered or tortured.
For example, the man who identified as a woman who was attracted to men, whom Haddy mentioned a while ago, was simply a homosexual male and that will have been the reason for his internment.

Oh god they just keep going

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2024 02:23

Feel free to rebut any of her points @ButterflyHatched.

Devilsmommy · 13/12/2024 02:34

Wow just rtft😳 @ButterflyHatched you are one serious piece of work. The things you've said on this thread are a fucking abomination and I bet there are many trans identifying people on this thread who are ashamed to be lumped in a group with you. Every single point you argue against all these amazing women on here just shows that no matter how you identify, you are not and never will be a woman. I think the worst was the absolute glossing over of @Garlicwest story to bang on about your trauma, how fucking low can you go🤨

ButterflyHatched · 13/12/2024 02:40

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2024 01:58

Saying that "trans people" were victims is to imply that trans people as a group were targeted for being trans. This is not true. People who liked apples or those who could knit were victims of the Nazis, but that is not why they were imprisoned, murdered or tortured.

Exactly, and I was going to say something similar. Some people we would now call "trans" were victims, but they were targeted for other reasons identified by the Nazis.

Why are you (ineptly) trying to argue this point? As in, why on earth are you so desperate to play the 'they actually weren't really' card despite evidence to the contrary alongside official court rulings in Germany about it constituting holocaust denial to do so? What are you even trying to prove here? Is this really what you're choosing to play contrarian opposite day over?

You don't have to be that person.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2024 02:42

Everyone sees what you are doing @ButterflyHatched

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/12/2024 02:43

Any word on those studies I asked you to link to which you say prove the efficacy and safety of puberty blocking drugs?