Real life scenario, how would you respond?

[MotherEarthisaTerf]

Just curious how many GC women do react when there is a male in a female safe space? Have you ever glared, or said anything?

eg department store changing rooms, public bathrooms?

this isn’t something I’ve come across but I’ll be honest, I’m unlikely to react past a judgemental look.

When encountering a larger, stronger male who is deliberately transgressing boundaries, I get out and away as fast and quietly as possible. Grey rock, get out.

Yep me too I would do this if it happened to me IRL. It hasn't yet but yeah, I'm not into confrontation anyway generally so would just get myself out of any sort of situation where that might happen. I've been sexually assaulted, thankfully I was rescued before it was rape but it was in women's toilets. Years ago, when I was very young. He followed me in, threw me into cubicle, locked the door. I was drunk, unable to fight back. Another women noticed him following me in and ran after then banged on door, shamed him enough he unlocked it and stormed out. It was at a noisy, bar/restaurant in a posh resort.

It's one of the reasons I really hate the toilets that say "cubicles" and "cubicles with urinals". Men get two choices, also any man going into the one marked "cubicles" and following a women in would no longer be questioned. It's a safeguarding failure. It's why I won't go back to five march in Glasgow. I actually had a bit of a panic attack when I saw their toilets. It was quite a posh bar/restaurant I was assaulted in (as five march also is). So it's not a stupid reaction to have.

Now I'm a retired 60 something, I'd hope I'd be brave enough to say what I saw. I have no job to lose now.

The only time I've come across a man in a dress in a woman's toilets was at a local theatre.

There's like a long line of sinks in an L shape, and quite an open area where you nwash your hands.

He was given a very wide berth. Not a word was said to anyone, but the women knew it was a man and just naturally moved away from him.

It has happened to me. A man in a woman's changing room. In fact many men, at once.
I was at work, having cycled into the office I used the changing rooms for a shower. I was in my undies when the door opened, and I heard male voices. Luckily the door didn't open directly onto the changing area, you have to walk in turn left, walk a few more steps, turn right (you get the picture), and realising they were about to see me in my bra and knickers I hid behind a pillar, whilst they walked in talking about refurbishment works that needed doing to the changing room. I think they saw my clothes and made a hasty retreat. I was too frightened in that moment to say anything.
Once I was at my desk I wrote a strongly worded email to our facilities manager to send on the building manager. Our FM was quite rightly furious and came over right away to apologise. I never received a reply from building management.
I wish I was brave enough to say loudly "can I help you", or even better stand there in my undies and go ape shit, but hindsight blah blah blah.

Earlier this year, at a petrol station in the (clearly marked and rather isolated) women’s toilets. I came out of the cubicle to find a man washing his hands. My reactions were completely instinctive.

I clocked that he was male, that he was between me and the exit, and that we were the only two people there. I then found myself pointing to the door and saying loudly in what sounded ridiculously like Maggie Smith in Downton Abbey, “Well, one of us is in the wrong place!"

He skedaddled off. I have no idea if it was a genuine mistake on his part or not. But I was rather shocked by the immediacy and force of my response - and also how it seemed to be without a conscious thought process (which probably means that I’d somehow picked up that it was safe to do that, as I know I have reacted very differently in the past to other men in similar situations).

I can usually pick up vibes from these men, whether they the ones who are looking for confrontation, and are always on the verge of aggression; or whether they are the ones who just wish they were women.

The first type, I get the hell out as quickly as possible, maybe complaining to management later, when it is safe. The others I glare or say something like Mmmnotsure said.

In neither instance is it a comfortable experience and I resent the intrusion.
I’ll be glad when all this woke bollocks is out of fashion.

Yes this happened to me once at a motorway services. I was absolutely busting for a pee after missing the services twice, practically hopping to get to the loo in time. Arrived in the toilet to find a very anxious looking girl hovering some twelve feet back from the basins where a man was performance handwashing and mirror grimacing. I’m afraid far from anything particularly dramatic I just said “oh for fucks sake” stormed past and used the facilities. When I came out a few minutes later they were both gone. I suspect exasperated impatient elderly woman was not his preferred audience.

Everyone knows that loos etc should be sex segregated. So any man in a ladies loo is already breaching boundaries, convention, social contract. He is already a problem just by being in there. And he always knows this, but prefers to make women uncomfortable because he likes the power play.

I don’t think being GC has anything to do with why any woman would bolt from
a safe space with a man in it.

That would be because of how men think, not women.

It's happened once (that I noticed). I just kept my head down and wished I was elsewhere.

I had an upsetting experience about a decade ago, when I lived in NYC. I attended a late movie with a male friend. I stopped in the ladies room on the way out, at about 1 AM. The restroom in that theater was a large rectangle, with cubicles in the far back and sinks/mirrors in the front, near the door. When I entered the restroom, it was empty. When I exited the cubicle, there was a very drunk man with his pants down attempting to block my path to the door. I was able to push past him quite easily, but it was still a frightening experience. I reported the incident to the only theater employee I could find, a young man. His response was not to apologize, call the police or remove the drunk man. Instead, he decided to lecture me and call me a transphobe, because obviously I was the problem, not the drunk man who had just tried to assault me.

I've had a few paths cross with trans-identified men in women's toilets. All three or four of the times, they were people minding their own business, so I didn't say anything. I was surprised though by how offputting I found it, them being there..I don't think it's because they were male. Decades ago (maybe now too?) the French sometimes had unisex toilets for all and I didn't find the presence of men offputting. I was a teenager, so at maximum mortification stage, but it didn't bother me.But TIMs do. I'm not sure why. Maybe because it's now a big political deal, and if it's going to be a big deal they should have the consent of all women first. They clearly don't, which, for me makes it feel like an imposition.@CarolinaWren What an upsetting experience! To me, the young male employee would have been worse than the drunk!

@quixote9 Yes, definitely. I was much more upset about the employee than the drunk. Even when I interrupted his completely inappropriate and unprofessional lecture to tell him the man didn't appear to be transgender, just a random drunk pervert, he continued, insisting that the drunk man had every right to be in the ladies with his penis out, attempting to assault me.

Several times in toilets - I kept my head down and did my best to ignore them

oddly enough being middle aged & 5ft tall I’m not keen on confronting much taller & stronger men in my spaces whatever they’re wearing

and yes I completely understand that because they are not confronted, they go around saying that women don’t mind because no one ever says anything….

I saw a feminine man (long hair, makeup) in the women's changing rooms at Centre Parcs Spa, Penrith. Everyone had clothes on thank goodness. I had no idea whether I could complain. I gave him a look and said nothing. It really bugs me when men in dresses say 'I've been using the women's toilets with no problems for years' with clearly no idea that women are very unlikely to challenge a large, strong and potentially violent man in an enclosed space. I think KJK did a good job in this video.

I've never noticed a male in a female space so it's never been something to think about. Boys used to run in our loos in primary school.

Do you often see people in women's bathrooms and changing rooms that you suspect were born male?

I was astonished at how easily I clocked this person was male. I'm not the most observant person but it was instant.

I'd be wary of confronting someone who just appears masculine. I work with someone who still identifies as a woman, but honestly a lot of people misidentify them as a man. When people come to meet them at work, they do not assume that this person is "woman's name". I'd hate for her to be confronted by anyone assuming she is a pervy man.

By the same token, my neighbour is a man often mistaken for a woman. He's got long hair and the type of lean body type common with androgynous women. He's also straight as far as I know. Only seen him with female partners, goes by "man's name" and haven't even seen a Pride flag near him.

I wouldn’t say anything because I don’t want to get punched.

the times it has happened I’ve generally given a stony glare.

in Seattle (of course) I saw a bloke who was at least in his 60s wearing tiny hot pants, knee high socks, strappy vest top and a pink wig go into thr ladies ahead of us. I waited 10 mins and he still hadn’t come out so I went in with my daughter and guarded her stall. I then sent her out, used the loo quickly and he was out smirking in the mirror when I came out. My creep o meter was off the scale.

The Ladies toilets in Leeds (nightclubs, pubs and music venues) have been piss covered on more than one occasiondue to transwomen users of said toilets who never clear up after themselves. So even if you don't meet a transwoman in the loos, their territorial pissings might be waiting for you.

I think it depends where you are in the country. Leeds also had a lot of female TWAW believers, but that could have been partly due to the alternative music scene group of people (who were despite surface appearences, the least 'punk' and most complient with right think and self righteous. If anyone desperately needed a 'holiday in Cambodia' as per the Dead Kennedys' song, it's that lot).

I didn't confront him because he was a man. I appreciate that sometimes people get it wrong but at the moment women don't have any backup to remove men from female spaces. And it is absolutely our right not to have men in our toilets and changing rooms. There is a reason they are single sex - for women's privacy and safety - any man using these spaces is transgressing women's boundaries.

I'm actually more concerned about women being harassed for "looking like men". I can imagine that happening if people feel like they have the right to "gender check" fellow bathroom users.

I once had a member of staff at the gym come in and tell me it was a female only changing room. I was in the shower cubicle and assumed talking to someone else initially. She knocked on the door and I had to declare my womanhood. It was a bit disconcerting. Some teenagers had come in (community campus so gym is in a school) spotted my uniform hanging up ( high vis waterproofs type stuff) and decided a bloke was in the showers. I’m tall do wearing blokes clothes and size 8 workbootsmight of contributed.

It’s tricky because you don’t want people to make assumptions but also follow your instincts.

My first experience was in the guest area at Reading Festival in 93.

The band that inspired my name, Alice Donut, was playing and they had a man who used to dress up as a woman and dance on stage with them.

After their performance, and he was already off his face during it, he got utterly wrecked and parked himself in the guest area ladies toilets. He laid on the floor and kept poking his head under the doors. I mean, the toilets were cleaner than the festival toilets by a million miles but even so, they were not perfect. Also, he had access as an artist to the actual pristine toilets in the back back backstage area.

Myself and a friend of mine were horrified by his behaviour and we picked him up off the floor and escorted him out several times. All the women and girls there were horrified, and many just didn't go in and went into the men's instead.

If this was now, we'd have been the ones to have been removed and barred from the festival. It is disgraceful what women and girls now cannot do to protect themselves and other women and girls.