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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Real life scenario, how would you respond?

203 replies

MotherEarthisaTerf · 24/11/2024 21:52

Just curious how many GC women do react when there is a male in a female safe space? Have you ever glared, or said anything?

eg department store changing rooms, public bathrooms?

this isn’t something I’ve come across but I’ll be honest, I’m unlikely to react past a judgemental look.

OP posts:
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NPET · 25/11/2024 23:33

NewZealandintherain · 25/11/2024 17:12

I don’t understand your post. Why would you “love someone” to challenge you? Why would you want to get into a discussion? And why would it be “fun”?

I don’t imagine many biological females get challenged in women’s spaces. Women don’t tend to make a fuss if they’re uncomfortable and secondly it’s quite unusual for biological women to look like men, especially to the extent that someone would feel confident enough in challenging them.

I think because I could then put across my views but also because it would prove that other people are concerned like me.

Grammarnut · 25/11/2024 23:36

ByGentleFatball · 25/11/2024 08:52

I'm actually more concerned about women being harassed for "looking like men". I can imagine that happening if people feel like they have the right to "gender check" fellow bathroom users.

Women who are non-gender conforming would have no problems were there not fears that men are transgressing women's boundaries and entering what are sex segregated spaces.

Datun · 26/11/2024 02:41

ByGentleFatball · Yesterday 09:13
The point is that even scientists can't tell by looking.

Don't these people ever think for one nanosecond, that life as we know it would cease if you couldn't determine men from women?

Poor thing, dating must be an absolute nightmare. You only realise you've got the wrong sex, on the, what is it these days? Third date?

Peregrina · 26/11/2024 08:39

Not me but friend has a trans woman in her workplace who pisses all over the women's toilets on their floor. The actual women have been unable to say anything and discreetly go down to use the disabled loo on the ground floor, so the male just has their loos to himself now.

Put a big notice up to say that "If you splash on the floor get a cloth and wipe up." Or complain to HR or the management.

getahhtmapub · 26/11/2024 09:07

@pumpkinpillow were you too afraid to confront the man?

I'm not sure it crossed my mind properly in that split second tbf. Yes all three of us were scared. He was at the sink so I guessed he would be leaving so we could leave the cubicle once he was done but he was there for ages. That's when I got my courage and decided I'd confront him only to realise he was the janitor. Somehow that made it all kinda 'acceptable' and he was 'safe'

Scout2016 · 26/11/2024 09:21

I've had this twice. First time he was leaving as I was going in and there was a queue so it was a squeeze past situation and really busy. He was gone by the time I'd finished registering him.
Second we were the only ones in downstairs toilets in a gig venue, so I was acutely aware that we were alone, everyone else was upstairs and the venue was really noisy so no one would hear me if I yelled. I just left as soon as possible.
Both time I emailed the venue afterwards to complain and they did not give a shit. The gig venue - Band On The Wall Manchester - suggested I use the disabled toilets which are upstairs. I asked them things like who had they consulted before they decided it was OK to let men in, what risk assessments had they done, pointed out number of attacks on women in toilets and all reasons for single sex spaces .... no answers, probably because they haven't risk assessed it or consulted anyone. These venues don't care and until someone is harmed and it looks bad on them they won't rethink.

lordloveadog · 26/11/2024 09:50

The TW I know have desperate fantasies about 'no-one being able to tell'. Convinced that the pills will make their skeletons remodel into a female shape. That if only their female friends would step up as ordered and teach them about make up, they'd be girls too.

I think we've just seen a telling example of that. Grasping at anything they think might be an example of a man passing as a woman, even a partially decomposed corpse. 'Not even scientists could tell!'

MotherEarthisaTerf · 26/11/2024 10:01

ByGentleFatball · 25/11/2024 09:51

If they're a SAHM who keeps abreast of the academic advancements in science or anthropology then sure. Most SAHMs probably have something more like an English Lit degree though.

Arf 😂

spot the feminist

OP posts:
Datun · 26/11/2024 10:22

MotherEarthisaTerf · 26/11/2024 10:01

Arf 😂

spot the feminist

It's so. Stay at home mums are too thick to have a science degree, but then in the next breath the poster awards them all with an English lit degree.

American, I'm wondering

Nikitaspearlearring · 26/11/2024 10:25

thenightsky · 24/11/2024 23:04

Now I'm a retired 60 something, I'd hope I'd be brave enough to say what I saw. I have no job to lose now.

What would you say? Wouldn't you be afraid of annoying him?

Nikitaspearlearring · 26/11/2024 10:36

Datun · 26/11/2024 02:41

ByGentleFatball · Yesterday 09:13
The point is that even scientists can't tell by looking.

Don't these people ever think for one nanosecond, that life as we know it would cease if you couldn't determine men from women?

Poor thing, dating must be an absolute nightmare. You only realise you've got the wrong sex, on the, what is it these days? Third date?

Edited

That did make me laugh! "Oh...."

thenightsky · 26/11/2024 13:35

Nikitaspearlearring · 26/11/2024 10:25

What would you say? Wouldn't you be afraid of annoying him?

If I was with one or two of my no-fucks-to-give 60 year old mates, then no. I'd probably say something alone the lines of 'young man, you appear to be in the wrong toilets'.

MotherEarthisaTerf · 26/11/2024 15:01

I have been further reflecting on this and thinking about how on more than one occasion I’ve caught a man in or heading into the ladies toilets and put them right.

I’ve never walked into the men’s or heard my husband talk about a woman accidentally being in the men’s.

Show of hands who here has walked into the men’s and not bloody noticed?

Does this demonstrate our natural fear and situational instinct?

OP posts:
EdenPalmersVenomViper · 26/11/2024 16:36

Datun · 26/11/2024 10:22

It's so. Stay at home mums are too thick to have a science degree, but then in the next breath the poster awards them all with an English lit degree.

American, I'm wondering

'Mall' was mentioned at one point on this thread. A lovely Americanism, bolded by myself in the quote below. (It's also worth reading this poster's posts on the 'Is the Kink Scene a Cult? Interesting Podcast' thread on this board).

'ByGentleFatball · Yesterday 09:42

All i an saying is that if scientists have trouble seeing who is male or female from tests and things, then some SAHM in the mall toilets isn't going to be able to do much better.'

Nikitaspearlearring · 26/11/2024 16:44

MotherEarthisaTerf · 26/11/2024 15:01

I have been further reflecting on this and thinking about how on more than one occasion I’ve caught a man in or heading into the ladies toilets and put them right.

I’ve never walked into the men’s or heard my husband talk about a woman accidentally being in the men’s.

Show of hands who here has walked into the men’s and not bloody noticed?

Does this demonstrate our natural fear and situational instinct?

I might've been distracted and gone to go in there but realised at the door that I was in the wrong place.

I was in Rome a few years ago, going round the Colosseum. Needed the loo and there was a huge queue at the Ladies, none at the Gents. A couple of women (German tourists maybe) said they weren't prepared to wait and went into the Gents. But I couldn't do it. I realise now that morally it would be wrong for me to do it because I don't agree with men in women's loos. But I wonder if men would mind?

MotherEarthisaTerf · 26/11/2024 18:00

EdenPalmersVenomViper · 26/11/2024 16:36

'Mall' was mentioned at one point on this thread. A lovely Americanism, bolded by myself in the quote below. (It's also worth reading this poster's posts on the 'Is the Kink Scene a Cult? Interesting Podcast' thread on this board).

'ByGentleFatball · Yesterday 09:42

All i an saying is that if scientists have trouble seeing who is male or female from tests and things, then some SAHM in the mall toilets isn't going to be able to do much better.'

In all fairness, in the north west of England i know of a small town ‘mall’ 🙄 ghastly name, but it has been adopted by the community.

eg - the village of Binghamsly having Bighamsly Mall.

OP posts:
ArtfullyCrumpled · 26/11/2024 18:25

Every other day. I work in the public sector in Scotland and have a male colleague regularly uses the Ladies loos/changing room.

I get out of there if he's in there out of instinct. I don't want to raise it because i could get in trouble as we've just had new training on Learnpro saying we have to tolerate people's choice of toilet.

It already pisses me off that we have free sanitary products for "people who menstruate" in the Ladies (not in the Gents though!).

If it was one of the other men I work with I'd be more likely to confront him and say "what are you doing in here?!".

ifIwerenotanandroid · 26/11/2024 18:33

MotherEarthisaTerf · 26/11/2024 15:01

I have been further reflecting on this and thinking about how on more than one occasion I’ve caught a man in or heading into the ladies toilets and put them right.

I’ve never walked into the men’s or heard my husband talk about a woman accidentally being in the men’s.

Show of hands who here has walked into the men’s and not bloody noticed?

Does this demonstrate our natural fear and situational instinct?

I did once, but it was a weird set-up at a conference centre/hotel. There were 3 sets of loos with adjacent entrances: 1 male, 1 female & 1 between them which could be assigned male or female depending on what the gathering was. I've never seen that anywhere else, though it seems very sensible.

On this occasion it was assigned to the men, but I saw the men's loo on the left hand side & walked into the one next to it assuming it was the ladies. I realised my mistake & left immediately.

Apart from that, no, in 60+ years. I think some men try to use women's loos on the grounds that they're cleaner than the men's, with no nefarious purpose in mind. But they're ignoring women's needs & feelings when they do it.

BearOnABlanket · 26/11/2024 19:26

Show of hands who here has walked into the men’s and not bloody noticed?
Does this demonstrate our natural fear and situational instinct?

I did once when I was at a quiz when I was a brownie - TBF, there weren't exactly many men present, and it was a village hall, and the doors were propped open because they'd just been cleaned I think. I remember going in there with a mate, and wondering what the weird sink things were (urinals) until my friend came out of the single cubicle, it dawned on me, and we ran out again!

Never done it as an adult though. The smell for one thing is normally enough to make me check I'm going in the right place first!

Peregrina · 26/11/2024 20:27

Only once been into the Gents, when it was at an all boys school, so no provision for visiting girls and they let us use the male staff loos.

JanesLittleGirl · 26/11/2024 20:57

I have inadvertently opened the door to the gents in poorly illuminated or labelled environments but my nose has immediately alerted me to my mistake.

JanesLittleGirl · 26/11/2024 21:00

JanesLittleGirl · 26/11/2024 20:57

I have inadvertently opened the door to the gents in poorly illuminated or labelled environments but my nose has immediately alerted me to my mistake.

Sorry, just thinking about this, the high incidence of gendered rather than sexed loos in the City (looking at you Brew Dog) makes my nose a less useful guide.

PriOn1 · 26/11/2024 23:00

I walked into the men’s once in a railway station where the doors were propped open and it was very unclear which was which. It was very obvious due to the urinals, so I rapidly backtracked. I then went and used the ladies and met a young man who looked horrified when he realized his mistake. I felt no discomfort or fear on that occasion.

On another occasion, having chosen to use a mixed sex toilet that was empty when I went in, I met a man at the communal sinks afterwards and was surprised just how uncomfortable it felt, knowing only the two of us were in there. I don’t think he was a particularly threatening man, or I’d have walked out, but I wouldn’t choose to use the mixed sex option again if there was an alternative. I think he felt uncomfortable too as mixed sex toilets were relatively new.

If I found an obviously gay man in women’s clothes in there, in a club say (admittedly unlikely now I’m old) I might not feel fear, especially if he seemed friendly. I think it’s not infallible, but some men don’t seem threatening, where others do.

I did see an upper middle aged man walking around my local supermarket one day in a completely inappropriate white, flowery summer dress and heels. If I’d run into him in the toilet, I’d have backed out rapidly as even out in public, he gave me the willies. Might be different if there was also a child or youngster involved as my protective instincts would probably kick in. If I was with a group of terven women, let’s face it, we’d probably point and laugh. That would be the best reaction.

That’s the thing though. I know some women would find all those situations difficult, which is why all men should stay out, but my personal response would be very variable, depending on who else was there and how threatening I found the man in question. I absolutely would not challenge the scary man if I was on my own, so he could continue to say he’d been using women’s toilets for years without a problem… even though he’d sent many, many women running.

LizzieBowesLyon · 27/11/2024 01:28

See current guardian soulmates thread. It’s all there.

Oreosareawful · 27/11/2024 13:33

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