Real life scenario, how would you respond?

[MotherEarthisaTerf]

Just curious how many GC women do react when there is a male in a female safe space? Have you ever glared, or said anything?

eg department store changing rooms, public bathrooms?

this isn’t something I’ve come across but I’ll be honest, I’m unlikely to react past a judgemental look.

I'm interested in why @ByGentleFatball thinks this post is homophobic, given it says nothing whatsoever about anyone's sexuality.

Sexist perhaps to blame women for not dressing in typically gendered ways, but homophobic?

I think @ByGentleFatball has revealed something about their own prejudices here.

Not that @ByGentleFatball is going to come back having found a convenient excuse to flounce without having to deal with the actual responses they got to theory obvious sexism and not the easy to demolish strawman they were expecting.

Damn it, why won't these pesky women just play the roles they are given , right @ByGentleFatball ?

Once I really needed the loo in a public space only to find a male in an outfit that tried to channel Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman posing in front of the mirrors. It was a quiet loo in a large public building so I guess he sought it out for his little performance. He wasn’t pleased to see me - I guess I interrupted something pleasant. I was desperate, so ran to the cubicle furthest away from him and slammed the door really hard. When I got out, he was gone.

The other time in a loo was more uncomfortable as it was a male who I only clocked when washing my hands at the same time. It was a professional situation, not a random member of the public. I couldn’t really say anything. He knew this and gave me a dirty smirk, enjoying his power trip. What an arsehole.

When out and about, my usual response is to hum the tune of the En Vogue song Whatta Man.

Use your judgement on a case by case basis, because some of these men will get violent when questioned.

Give over with your nonsense. Half the people on this thread are gay.

It's only happened once to me. It was in a department store. I just walked out and told other women (some were intending to go in, some were simply shopping) and a few of us told a shop assistant. She was actually very sympathetic but said she wasn't supposed to do anything. We persisted but by then he'd left. If it happens again, I'd do the same.

Jane Doe??

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@MarieDeGournay Oh, my life is full of escalier moments :)

But this occasion from start to finish happened in no time at all and I think was all based on an instinctive reaction. I took far longer to process it afterwards.

Today I learned it was Diderot wot said it. Thank you.

'If they're a SAHM who keeps abreast of the academic advancements in science or anthropology then sure. Most SAHMs probably have something more like an English Lit degree though.'

WTAF am I reading? 

I think @ByGentleFatball is overplaying their hand. I also feel the need to correct the assertion that we are saying peeing in the vicinity of men is inherently dangerous. I don't agree with this. Whilst not a fan of unisex loos, the vast majority of men are just getting on with it. What makes it dangerous having a man in women's toilets is that they have made a deliberate and conscious decision to ignore social convention and women's dignity by going in, and that in itself ratchets up the danger scale.

Anyway, in response to the op, I have been in a situation where a man has accidentally walked into the ladies and they are clearly mortified, and disappear pronto.

I have also encountered a man deliberately in the women's toilets and I didn't confront him but loudly warned other women on the way out that there was a bloke in the loos. It was a long time ago though, and I probably would be reported for transphobia these days.

We had something similar
I started at the same time as a man,who 6 months later wanted to become a woman
Our staff ladies loos had a rule between us-leave it how you'd want to find it
That worked well until the man (now in a skirt) started pissing all over the floor and leaving his pubes and shit marks all up the toliet-he'd come out smirking
We all got together and complained
Management's answer?
To set up a rota between all us women (not him) to clean it twice a day (4 times if he was in)
28 of us (me included) left within the month
He's still there and the women/girls are too scared to say anything as the useless managers are too scared to do anything in case he flips and they don't want the bad publicity

@NigellaAwesome

Whilst not a fan of unisex loos, the vast majority of men are just getting on with it. What makes it dangerous having a man in women's toilets is that they have made a deliberate and conscious decision to ignore social convention and women's dignity by going in, and that in itself ratchets up the danger scale.

👏👏👏

This is so important.

What made the young man think this was a TiM? He had his trousers down and tried to stop your exit, which is a sexual assault. Or did he think this was normal behaviour for a TiM? 😬Either way, he was also a nutjob.

Your children's naked bodies aren't a reflection of adult bodies.

I've got grandsons, and I know a willy when I see one.

Funny how the posters who dismiss women's rights to safety and privacy from men are so often genital obsessives. Genitals feature so often in their admonishments to women to be silent. Odd that.

Oooooh, I'm telling on yoooouuuuu

It's only happened to me once as far as I know. I was leaving a loo in a Costa inside a Next and a transwoman was on his way in. Middle aged, very obvious wig, twinset etc. For a split second I thought I was going to challenge him. But what I actually did was smile and hold the door open for him! Just goes to show how deep the 'Be Kind' social conditioning is.

Can't believe what I'm reading on this thread though. Pompeii! SAHMs and their English Lit degrees! Would be hilarious if it wasn't so absurd.

And as for 'only challenge people who behave inappropriately. Call security'... Funnily enough there is no 'security' in or around the public toilets in my town.

Laypeople with full bladders cannot tell with accuracy if someone is male or female unless they conform to gender roles in every way. So we probably shouldn't be confronting anyone especially if they're just using the toilet.

You're missing the point entirely. It needs to be a blanket rule, that only actual females can use the female toilet/changing room/any other segregated space, because that's how safeguarding works. You wouldn't say "oh well any men can come in as long as they're behaving themselves".

'Scientists can't always tell what sex millennia-old skeletons are so women shouldn't challenge blokes in the ladies' loos' has got to be the maddest argument for violating women's boundaries anyone has ever made, surely? Is there some sort of prize?

On a personal note I'd rather be mistaken for a man and challenged than women and girls be unsafe. But then I'm not a man in the ladies'. They seem to have different priorities.

This has happened to me few times.

in my clubbing days I used to go to some ermmmm interesting places. So yeah certain nights it was pretty normal to find men in the ladies. But the big thing was consent. It was made clear on entry that going beyond that door was implicit consent to witnessing certain acts, and also consenting to the pleasure people got from having witnesses. Iyswim. Having said that. Because consent was critical, if you asked for space or privacy, you’d get it.

Less happy if it happens in the bogs at M&S.

and as an androgynous dresser who used to get mistaken for a bloke before I got fat and middle aged. I don’t mind being challenged. I can’t consent to that for everyone, obvs, but let’s be honest, any butch woman will have has their share of hostile haranguing about not conforming to femininity. A quiet. ‘ are yo in the right place?‘ is not a problem.

That happened to us. Just after we complained about confusing (at best) signage. There should be no reason for any male to go anywhere near women’s facilities. Why is anyone promoting this? Actually we know exactly why. And there is no excuse, ever.

My safe space is my home anything out side is not even if some say it it.

I encountered a man in the girls' changing room at my children's swimming lessons. I politely challenged him, saying, I don't think you're supposed to be in here. He aggressively replied, no I'm not supposed to be in here, continued getting his children changed and then left. It turns out that his wife had fainted in the changing room so she left to sit down outside and he came in to finish getting their children changed, with the full knowledge of the swim school manager. I stayed in the changing room until the man left since there were unaccompanied girls in there and I wanted to make sure they didn't get undressed in front of him (as I didn't find out why he was in there until later on.) I was surprised at how shaken up I was by the whole thing to be honest. The issue was his aggression. If he had said, I'm so sorry but my wife was feeling dizzy and I needed to finish dressing my children, then I'm sure I wouldn't have been so upset.

I asked why the swim school manager couldn't have asked one of the female swimming teachers to stay in the changing room while the man was in there to explain what was happening but he stood by his decision and said he would do the exact same thing in any similar scenario.

I was alone, drying my hands, in the Ladies at Thurrock Motorway when a man on a mobile phone entered. I looked up at him, he looked at me in mounting horror, and apologised profusely whilst leaving as fast as he could for the Gents. 🤦

Thanks, that is helpful and seems to me to be at the nub of the issue. If it is clear and the law that a biological man is not allowed in our toilets then we can quite clearly ask them to leave. In my workplace I am frightened to do this. In the current environment the backlash would be significant and the bullying would be off the scale. I support anyone's wish to be who they believe they are, but this should not be at the cost of making me feel really uncomfortable.

The law matters, of course, although a lot of it is the social contract.

https://sex-matters.org/posts/publications/toilets-matter-a-short-guide-to-law-and-good-practice/