Real life scenario, how would you respond?

[MotherEarthisaTerf]

Just curious how many GC women do react when there is a male in a female safe space? Have you ever glared, or said anything?

eg department store changing rooms, public bathrooms?

this isn’t something I’ve come across but I’ll be honest, I’m unlikely to react past a judgemental look.

Well what if I tell you I am and you don't believe me? What then? What if you call security and they don't believe me because of how I look. I'd eventually either have to get my boobs out, or my moo.

Honestly, it sounds like you're just trying to defend an ideology as opposed to any actual empathy for women - like me - who might be mistaken for men.

All i an saying is that if scientists have trouble seeing who is male or female from tests and things, then some SAHM in the mall toilets isn't going to be able to do much better.

I'm saying that if people act inappropriately in toilets, confront them. If they don't, do not.

Fuck! Did I just read this on a feminist thread?

Please don't blame yourself. Your response was rational in the circumstances. Faced with a threat or risk, fight, flight, freeze, or fawn kicks in. It's a survival instinct that has evolved over many millenia, because those are effective ways to get out of a dangerous situation.

Yes feminists are as practical as anyone else. A SAHM with no background in medical anthropology or similar isn't going to be able to "sex" someone ambiguous better than a scientist or anthropologist in that field. That's not sexism, it's common sense.

Edited to say:
This is in response to @ByGentleFatball regarding the Jane/Julie/John Doe case.

This person's body was found several months after their death. They would almost certainly have been decomposed totally or largely down to the bone. So the pathologists carrying out the autopsy would not have had all the same indicators of biological sex - Adam's apple, posture, musculature, etc - that someone looking at a living, breathing person in the toilet would have. They would have been relying on skeletal markers such as pelvis and height, which are only part of the picture that most people have.
It's a totally false equivalence to say, "Pathologists couldn't discern the biological sex from this one individual's decomposed skeleton; therefore, lay people encountering other living, breathing people must also be unable to discern the same."

Of course female people can tell with high levels of accuracy who is female and who is not.

A corpse is not a moving, talking body. Using corpses as a basis of support for claims that people cannot tell is very weak.

You're telling me I shouldn't assume the transwoman in the ladies was male, because a 6 foot tall gender non conforming woman may have been wearing a wig and bad make up and a tacky frock while frotting himself against the sink?

I'm sorry, but no.

They had a full body which was mummified but capable of autopsy where they examined them internally. It wasn't skeletal. And an Adam's apple and several other apprant markers of biological sex are apparent at autopsy. We are just finding out that these markers aren't as clear cut as we thought.

Again, confront people with inappropriate behaviour, not based on looks.

I get what you're saying. And you're doing it because you're trying to be nice. But the easy way to stop women policing other women is to have a blanket rule of No men in women's toilets. Simple.

The current method of allowing men in is leading to MORE women that look like men being confronted about their looks because women are feeling unsafe in their own spaces. I have had MORE suspicious looks now than before.

No. It is pure sexism.

And it is deluded to think that no SAHM has the qualifications that you have just dismissed. Remarkable really, but good that anyone reading can see exactly where you are coming from in your arguments.

I don't see a way to do that without taking dna samples or at the very least, genital tests at the door.

I think acting on inappropriate behaviour is the safest thing to do. That way the rare woman who is predatory is also caught out. That's what I'll be doing anyway.

If they're a SAHM who keeps abreast of the academic advancements in science or anthropology then sure. Most SAHMs probably have something more like an English Lit degree though.

Again, confront people with inappropriate behaviour, not based on looks.

An adult male person in the women's facilities IS behaving inappropriately.

I'm saying to confront/report inappropriate behaviour. This would be inappropriate

This is not really a problem, and I say that as a 'used to be' very androgenous lesbian.

Maybe if Stonewall had spent the last 15 years advocating for lesbians and butch lesbians in particular we would be in a much better place.

An SAHM, who deals with bodily bits - all day, every day - watches them grow before her eyes, observant of every detail - DOESN'T know the difference between sexes?? vs a scientist who doesn't really get out much. Did I read that right??

Recently in the fitting room at M&S two blokes had the cubicle doors open and were half undressed. I spoke to a member of staff and said I was very uncomfortable with the situation. Another customer agreed with me. The member of staff advised I complain to Head Office as they aren't allowed to. I'm now in correspondence with them, I'm getting the usual claptrap about them being 'inclusive'

Yep.

Oh please do keep going with your sexist takes. I am sure you think you are entertaining.

The reality is, if a male person was respectful of female people’s needs they wouldn’t be in those spaces in the first place.

Report them then if you are sure that they are a man and that the establishment agrees that using the toilet the same as you are is inappropriate.

You need to get people to agree that just using the toilet in the same vicinity as a woman is inherently dangerous first, though. That's the problem. Even if we agree transwomen are men, are men using the toilet in the same zone as us a risk in itself? If so we should probably not let men out at all. Your husband shouldn't be allowed near women or children in case he gets some manly urge to abuse.

This is why we will always fall back to a person's direct actions. What are they doing?

Well that wouldn't happen if single sex spaces were actually single sex.

I'm much more uncomfortable with a male pretending to be a woman (usually in wildly inappropriate clothing like that picture of Eddie Izzard queuing for the ladies where all the actual women were wearing neutral colour clothing and trousers) as he's probably using me / my children as an unconsenting prop in his fetish. It's my observation that transsexuals who aren't motivated by this and have empathy with women tend to stay out these days, presumably as they don't want to be confused with the using unconsenting women and children type of trans male