Is it too early for a post mortem?

[Appalonia]

So, now that America has categorically rejected transgender ideology, which I do think will affect the rest of the world, is now the time to ascertain HOW did so many institutions, including the Democratic and Labour Parties get so completely bamboozled by this ideology? Which is crazy, not based in material reality, disadvantages half of the population, has physically damaged thousands of young people, and that they didn't think that people would see through it?

I know a lot of people dislike Matt Walsh, but his documentary, What is a Woman, was jaw dropping! We must NEVER let this dangerous idiocy happen again ( and yes I know it's not over...)

Yes, Channel 4 news has become so biased in the last decade or so. I rarely, if ever watch it now. They do not even attempt to hide it. It is blatant.

I'm sure many Labour supporters will say that......but they already say that whatever you say or do if it doesn't align with their priorities.

Yes, the power of pharmaceuticals in the U.S is immense......and some of the Democrats main sponsors have direct interests in pharmaceuticals.

Joe Biden has been passing radical laws, just this year, which guarantee the 'rights' of gender identified people, including their right to access 'healthcare'.

My Florida based friend tells me that last Xmas the Whitehouse Xmas message was a trans message - with rainbow flags and people dancing around a rainbow Xmas tree; and Biden invited Dylan Mulvaney to the Whitehouse and was slobbering and fawning all over him. Meanwhile, Kamala Harris wrote a very public letter to Mulvaney too......telling him how wonderful it was, and how pleased she was that he's now spent a whole year being " his authentic self".

The Obamas have written a book on trans issues - in which Michelle tells trans people " you have our undying love and commitment" etc.

Half of Hollyood celebs seem to have a trans identified child.

"Trans' is most definitely made in America.

I know, the point is, it would be easier for the more sensible people on the left (Wes Streeting, for example) to say, "This is a perfectly reasonable left wing position to take" if it didn't also happen to be what Trump is doing.

Why does it have to be defined as either a Left or Right wing issue, though? Can't it just be an issue?

A bit too early but the US rejecting it will move things on

I don't think it's a left or right wing issue.

I know that's how some of the left will try to spin it though.

I posted this on the other thread discussing the Democrats' election strategy and loss in the US Election and I think posters here might enjoy it too:

Two things can be true. Both are ludicrous.

I just wanted to let you know you are right and clearly have good common sense.

Preach it Bill!

If they say that they are being stupid on purpose, and are going to make the same mistake again and again.

They should therefore be out of power until some less stupid people take the reins.

Wow he's mad!

This was particularly apparent with young women, socialised to 'be nice' in all circumstances, and terrified of being thought of as prejudiced.

I think this is an interesting question, and important to understanding the whole thing.

Why are we terrified to be thought of as prejudiced?

I don't think that is just about gender ideology, it's a much larger sense of terror. But terror is a good description, people are terrified, they feel deep moral shame at the possibility that someone might think that of them. Even when they are clear in their own minds their reasons have nothing to do with that.

It's not just a normal sense of not liking it when someone thinks poorly of us. It's like people afraid of being excommunicated or accused of paedophilia or something. Much more visceral.

I don't watch Piers cos he's a bit too smug for my taste but this video popped up on TwiX and I gave it a watch (on 1.5 speed). Amid the people winding each other up, it's got some interesting discussion in it concerning where the Democrats failed in election messaging and where the Republicans succeeded.

Yup, he's furious and has been so with the Democratic Party for the last year at least - he's been putting out monologues on a regular basis asking Democratic Party politicians and campaigners to stop being so extreme policy-wise and asking them to tack to the centre where he believes most voters are to be found.

He's also frequently said that he detests Democrats and their supporters writing Trump voters off as morons and evil, he believes that it's wrong to designate 50% of Americans as bad people and all it does is alienate them from listening to you.

He has intelligent discussions with guests from a wide range of political positions and they have all discussed the issues above with him; it's been hard to impossible get Democratic politicians to agree that they need to reign in the ID pol activism but journalists, pundits, academics and ex-politicos have been broadly in agreement that the message the Democratic Party were putting out, either intentionally or unintentionally, were damaging to their credibility with the electorate.

A post-mortem that frames gender ideology as something that "men" did against "women" is doomed to reach the wrong conclusions from the start.

Creepy AGP men might be the ones benefiting from it, but women have been cheerleading it. Jesse & Katie argued about this on a recent Blocked and Reported episode - yes, female British TERFs have led the charge against it but the charge was against a very female-led social consensus and the shunning was done by other women.

Part of the reckoning should include "how can we as women be less vulnerable to a social movement that weaponises our instincts to care for the weak, to the point that we put our own children in danger for the sake of virtue signalling to our fellow women".

We could also start by not adopting the ridiculous Americanism of referring to abortion as "women's essential rights and healthcare".

This is the exact kind of euphemism that got us "trans essential rights and healthcare" to mean castrations for gay teenagers and double mastectomies for depressed young women.

If something's worth defending, we can do it head held high under a clear and easily understood name.

Well the UK Labour party aren't out of power, they're in power.

I'm not talking about the Democrats.

I'm talking about the political left in OTHER countries.

We can all hope that they will look at what's just happened in the US and realise that most ordinary people aren't on board with gender ideology. But there's a risk that they will react in the opposite way and try to show how unlike Trump they are. Or that they'll listen to trans activists who will now say, "Trans rights are clearly under threat, look at what Trump is doing, you don't want to be like Trump, do you?"

Thankyou for this Utopia. I agree with Bill!

OP I think it’s much too early to decide we’ve won, but I do also agree that what happens in America (and the financial backlash on doctors & pharma will be critical - and might have been blocked by the democrats) will have an impact on the rest of the world

haven’t RTFT 😬 but nipping on to throw 2p’s worth in following *Scarlett’s point re ‘not wanting to be like Trump’

the commonalities of GC and right wing have been heavily emphasised

imo that’s as deliberate a move as the rise of gender ideology and the trad wives

pick your method of subjugation:

believe men are women (behave and comply by playing along)

believe men will protect us from other men (behave and comply or protection withdrawn)

rail against both and be attacked by both sides, but ultimately both will attack anyway for ‘falling short of expected compliance’ or ‘being a traitor’ (behave and comply or else)

connecting GC to Trump serves the woke bros v v well indeed as future take down material

exactly like Trump bros connecting inclusivity to trans ‘men=women’ has taken down being awake to racism, sexism, homophobia, ableism etc

they want us asleep to injustice, drugged into compliance, afraid of stepping out of line, or too beaten down to form any resistance

Trump winning is no win for women, Harris wouldn’t have been either, as said on a previous thread, the fight back to being forced to include women in voting is to ensure there are no candidates that prioritise women so they have no one to vote for

trans or trad - neither is good for women and hitching on to either bandwagon is going to be equally bad

forming any kind of new party or third way will be incredibly difficult, not just bc males have had many many years of creating and running a political system that is based on their needs, wants and methods, but also bc all sides will attack any attempt to make space within that system for anyone who might challenge the wants/methods as being discriminating against the need of others

I don’t have any kind of suggestion here but think it’s important to note that neither ‘side’ in either US/UK politics is going to be anything other than self-interested in protecting the male-benefiting status quo

I think the problem is the Left won’t listen and 'realise that the ordinary people are not onboard with the gender ideology’ because the left think the ordinary people are not smart enough to know what’s good for them, only they’re intelligent enough to know, which is why the people must be made to do what they're told. It use to be called the Nanny State, now us stupid people are starting to see it as a dictatorship. I think the left are so convinced that they are right they can’t process any evidence that proves the contrary, which is why the Democrats are blaming the people for voting for Trump, instead of realising that it wasn’t that he won the elect but they lost the election.

Who cares...it doesn't matter how they spin it. All that does is separate and insulate them further from where the bulk of the population are on issues. Labour's share of the vote was significantly down, even though they won more seats, and the Democrats effectively took a hammering.

It does matter what attitude they take, because they're in power in the UK for the next five years.

So, what do you propose?

Personally, I'm beyond caring what radical leftists and progressives have to say on the issue, or how they want to spin it.