Is it too early for a post mortem?

[Appalonia]

So, now that America has categorically rejected transgender ideology, which I do think will affect the rest of the world, is now the time to ascertain HOW did so many institutions, including the Democratic and Labour Parties get so completely bamboozled by this ideology? Which is crazy, not based in material reality, disadvantages half of the population, has physically damaged thousands of young people, and that they didn't think that people would see through it?

I know a lot of people dislike Matt Walsh, but his documentary, What is a Woman, was jaw dropping! We must NEVER let this dangerous idiocy happen again ( and yes I know it's not over...)

The Guardian is at it again:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/dec/01/there-are-cracks-in-the-feminist-movement-but-i-have-faith-in-women-to-stand-up-to-trump

In Britain, arguments quickly erupted in 2017 over whether the Women’s March was either too exclusive of trans women – since those pink hats might be “excluding trans women” – or, on the contrary, too eager to centre them. Since then, winning arguments on gender identity seems to be more important to some feminists than finding common ground.

...... international feminist solidarity has weakened on other fronts too......

(emphasis added)

Walter usually seems sensible, but this passage seems to imply that feminist solidarity requires the eschewal of TERFism.

(Amusingly, the link provided within this passage to TERF country, takes one straight to Mumsnet. The contrary argument is exemplified with this atrocity:

https://thebeaverlse.co.uk/lse-societies-fail-organise-womens-march/

If I was to no longer refer to myself as a woman, would it actually make an iota of difference?

I am completely indifferent to what you call yourself. You can refer to yourself however you want, I am never going to see any male as a woman and most people agree, whether they are honest about it or not.

The house of commons has just voted in favour of legalising assisted dying, ostensibly from a position of compassion. I have seen no evidence whatsoever that our NHS - which is currently doing seemingly everything it can to deny trans people access to treatment, deprive them of dignity and drive them to the edge of despair - has any reason not to pursue a Canada-style route of referring desperate people for state-sanctioned termination as a cost-effective alternative to expensive treatment that they'll have to wait decades to access.

If that doesn't scare you - or even give you the briefest pause for thought - then I invite you to read up on your history and consider what that legislation is likely to become under a future hard-right Reform-flavoured Britain egged on by Trump and Musk from across the Atlantic and facing increasing economic pressure and social polarisation.

Bizarre. For all the faults of the right wing, this legislation isn't a right wing project.

It is all just another layer of deception and wheedling isn't it. It is not unique at all though. We have seen it as a regular occurrence. I mean, we are told that there are many many of these male people who have stated that they have not and will not use female single sex spaces, but they don't speak out because ?? I have not worked out quite why, I suspect I know though.

But it really does seem to follow a type of script:

If I don't use the words that you need to describe your sexed body as being completely unique to the opposite sex, will that be enough to let me continue to use your spaces that I want / desperately need to / demand to use. It is not uncommon either to see the reason to be because when I last used the male spaces, I was soooooo uncomfortable and so were the other male people there. They were uncomfortable too. Therefore, I need to use the spaces that "I" want to use. so.... if I stop using your words can you stop saying no / stating material reality / being [mean] (insert various words, we all know them).

Brianna Wu has highlighted this very well on twitter as we keep pointing out on many threads. But there is a very long list of them.

No male people who fully respects female people's needs should be accessing female people's single sex spaces. We have been there and done that with the 'just let a few in'. It didn't work and it should never have been considered acceptable.

NHS is currently doing seemingly everything it can to deny trans people access to treatment, deprive them of dignity and drive them to the edge of despair

Hyperbole much?

Please go and get a hobby, or a dog. I find it's better for my own mental health than pointless introspection.

My mother who worked for the NHS for 20 years, needs a new knee, and is having to pay for it out of her savings.

Otherwise she won't be able to walk.

Talk about being on the edge of despair.

But Alison, medical treatment for a philosophical belief (because remember there is no medical issue now as per transgender people including those who are academics current position) trumps the need for your mother to walk or any other person's need for treatment for a medical condition.

Based on what those current transgender spokespeople have stated, what medical treatment do they desperately need? Or is there so much inconsistency as to make the issues impenetrable as possible so that a sub group of people get what they demand despite not having a medical condition to be treated. Because making a body 'fit' the person's personal philosophical belief doesn't sound quite like what that group intended their campaigning to achieve, but it is the outcome none the less.

Butterfly, why is it that when you perceived men’s discomfort at your being in their space (where you have every right to be) you felt inclined to remove yourself, but when you are told women are uncomfortable with your being in their space (where you have no right to be) you still persist?

Why do you believe women’s feelings matter less than men’s?

It isn't, which is part of the point. It doesn't matter who breaks the seal; once it is broken then our society becomes one where coercion (either on the part of the state itself or via social pressure) toward Assisted Dying is on the table.

This government is already failing to hold itself to a moral standard with existing institutions and provisions that ostensibly exist to save lives and improve the quality of living. What possible reason is there to believe that the next government - which I can pretty confidently say won't even be pretending to try - will have any incentive not to reach for the obvious shortest path?

Ah my post has gone, obviously touched a nerve.

That you feel it's appropriate to deny these very real and pressing daily realities says a lot about you as a person and how little awareness you have of the suffering of others.

That you feel it's appropriate to do so in such an insultingly dismissive way that would generate pages upon pages of furious chastisement and claims that I was exhibiting selfish male entitlement were I to use the exact same words back, demonstrates how fucked this entire dynamic is.

If I speak of consequences I'm being hyperbolic.

If I draw upon my own experiences to demonstrate this is not just abstract hyperbole I'm being self-absorbed.

If I present the real human cost of callous indifference then I'm being manipulative.

If I ask for reciprocal compassion then I'm being entitled.

That's all there is. There is no sanity; no reason; no humanity in this.

Callous indifference is not a virtue; empathy is not sinful weakness.

What “reciprocal” compassion would that be, @ButterflyHatched ?
You stopped using the men’s facilities when the men appeared to be uncomfortable, and inserted yourself into the women’s; where women’s discomfort caused you not a jot of angst because it worked better for you.
You absolutely are entitled, there isn’t a moment’s thought for anyone besides yourself in all your verbose ramblings.

Trans people are subject to the same parameters of treatment on the NHS as every other person in the UK.

If I speak of consequences I'm being hyperbolic.

You dismiss out of hand the consequences of GI on women.

If I draw upon my own experiences to demonstrate this is not just abstract hyperbole I'm being self-absorbed.

You dismiss out of hand the experiences of women.

There is certainly no humanity shown for women.

Nah... we point out that your posts are hyperbolic because they use hyperbolic language.

You are manipulative because your posts draw on manipulative tactics. You might not be aware of this, but they most certainly do this.

You haven't asked for 'reciprocal compassion' at all. You have told women that we should show you and others compassion while declaring that you are not ever going to stop using female single sex provisions.

"That's all there is. There is no sanity; no reason; no humanity in this.
Callous indifference is not a virtue; empathy is not sinful weakness."

And this is a great example of what we are pointing out - the hyperbole, the hypocrisy, the emotional manipulation. It is all right there in those sentences.

Indeed. It seems that a male person should be celebrated for showing 'compassion' to the male people that felt uncomfortable, while the very real harm experienced by female people by this individual's action that adds to the collective harm, is completely dismissed with demands for humanity and compassion from the female people.

You really cannot make this up.

Operation Let Them Speak working beautifully yet again

Meh. Women know a lot about coercive control, emotional manipulation, "Do as I say or I'll....." (select threats as appropriate).

We are concerned for our gaslit children (especially girls) who've been subject to manipulation and flat earthism from adults and groups who should be nowhere near children. We're concerned about women and girls without the resources and back up to say no to abusers. We're concerned about the hard working nurses being forced to undress in front of a man who claims to be women. We're concerned about lesbians being compelled to accept males in their dating pool. We challenge the reduction of women in pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding to body parts with the serial removal of the language of women, our rights to privacy, dignity and safety from men. All in the name of "trans demands".

Our concerns are outward facing - speaking out about the deliberate undermining of family relationships by those seeking to undermine children's relationships with their families and the social contract. Concern and care for others evident in so many posts.

Compare and contrast with the self absorbed posts demanding "me me me.." I want this. I expect that, I need this" . The difference is so stark.

My mother, who is a musician and has spent her career working to enrich the lives of local children, is currently partially deaf and is waiting on a referral for treatment that will take a year for a first appointment. It's massively impacting her quality of life and is absolutely ridiculous that she has to wait so long for something so trivial.

Prior to it being shut down, children waiting for a first appointment at the Tavi would have had to be referred at the age of 13 to have been able to be seen once before they aged out.

The waiting list for the adult GIC is six years for first appointment.

You can finish school, go to university, complete a Masters degree and be halfway through a PhD before you have your first 'hello I would like to talk about how sad I am that I've spent my entire adult life waiting to talk to you please' appointment.

The waiting list for surgery is approximately equivalent to a life sentence in prison.

The NHS is fucked. The suffering is the point. The Tories have been massacring it for years; Streeting is finishing the job.

Women are supposed to immediately acquiesce to appeals to emotion ("Be Kind").

I'm afraid i lost most of my sympathy for people waiting for their gender affirmation surgeries when they started whining that women having reconstruction work after mastectomies for cancer treatment were being prioritised over trans women wanting new boobs on the NHS

I remember.

And also, what is the NHS providing treatment for now exactly? Because we are told by the transgender spokespeople and groups that there is no medical condition associated with being transgender.

There really seems to be many inconsistencies here that are never explained coherently.

Impassioned pleas to be spared don't work on tigers or landslides, but they do sometimes work on rational and compassionate human beings.

There is absolutely no point in trying to communicate with irrational, hateful people but I'm here precisely because I don't believe that accurately describes the people I'm trying to communicate with on this forum.

You are not listening, you are on broadcast mode only.

Where is the compassion for female people? It is nowhere to be found in any of your posts.

I don't disagree; on the grand utiliarian scale of moral top trumps, loss trumps lack.

If only that 350 million a week we were supposed to have saved for the NHS due to Brexit could have been employed to make this kind of moral calculus irrelevant. Ah well. I'm sure we won't fall for it in a few years' time.