Blue Sky

[AndCoronets]

What do you make of it? I was all for a break from the cesspit that it is TwiX, but I'm getting dubious vibes. Set up my account, searched for a few of the accounts which I follow on Twitter, got to Kathleen Stock and all I found was transphobe, blah blah type posts. Depressing.

"Tory is a dirty word, they must change their name, says election guru
Sir Lynton Crosby, strategist known as the Wizard of Oz, says whoever wins the Conservative leadership contest needs a change of direction" .......( From The Times).

Fwiw, if tory is perceived by some tories as a 'dirty word', that entirely on them because of their policies and the way they've behaved. Now I'm starting to see why tras might also see tra as a slight. Which brings me back to a point I made earlier about their consciences.

I'm clearly responding to a post to illustrate a point...I don't see the need to start a discrete thread.

Where I live ( a Labour city) the word Tory is definitely used as a pejorative, in the same way some women do use TRA as a pejorative. I've been referred to as a 'Tory' just because i don't support TWAW and I do support Israel's right to exist. That doesn't take away from the fact that TRA is a shorthand phrase, the same way that GC has become a shorthand phrase.

These sorts of terms, though, are specific to people actively engaged with the issues, and not to the general public........who mostly don't understand them; and because these terms get used as shorthands by each 'side' they inevitably take on a disparaging tone.

I'm not entirely sure therefore what we're disagreeing over, if anything🙂

Perhaps, it's that if I see tra as anything other than descriptive it's because I think many of the things some of them espouse are objectively vile (rapists in women's prisons, etc.), in which case that's on them. Whatever they're called or that they call themselves it's the ideology that's the problem not the name or the abbreviation. If they started calling themselves Friends of Gender (FoG), for example, and we dutifully started using the name and the acronym, the bad vibes would still be there.

There's also an element of the tras who seem to be desperate to be the most oppressed. Which is another reason why tra seems to suddenly (since yesterday afaik) become problematic.

So, for now, I'm sticking with tra. Unless everyone else bizarrely decides to go with FoG.

Thanks for posting info, it’s always helpful for lurkers and the rest of us, but it won’t make any difference to the original poster who has been given this info previously on multiple occasions and refuses to acknowledge or assimilate any information that is contrary to their curated POV 🤷‍♀️

I use TRA too.....though I do say it with a hint of distaste......inevitably.

YouGov did surveys in 2018, 2020 and 2022 on 'Transgender Rights'.

A new YouGov study, the third, and most expansive, in a series spanning back to 2018, shows evidence of an overall gradual erosion in support towards transgender rights. In some areas the shift is very pronounced.

And it's not just an 'older person thing':

While the youngest Britons are more supportive than their elders, there are some trans rights issues on which they too show scepticism. There is net opposition among 18-24 year olds for providing transgender treatments to children, and allowing trans women to take part in women’s sporting events. And although there is slim net support for making the legal process of transition easier (+6), they are marginally opposed to removing the main requirements that would actually entail: requiring trans people to live as their preferred gender for two years (-4) and requiring a doctor to sign off (-6).

I would love to know what responses they would get if they repeated the survey now.

https://yougov.co.uk/society/articles/43194-where-does-british-public-stand-transgender-rights-1

James Dreyfus has written his verdict of BlueSky

https://thecritic.co.uk/bluesky-thinking/

Also includes Rob Reiner's.

I think they should have called it SoylentGreen. The problem is that it's made of people.

I'm guessing what would happen is the TRA's would continue to hark back to the 2018 poll, ignoring the later ones, as they do in a similar manner for the early consultations for the GRR Scotland Bill, totally ignoring the 2022 call for evidence which showed a massive majority against self id.

Yes indeed. The 2018 poll was before YouGov introduced the category of 'Transwomen who have not had gender reassignment surgery', at which point approval of access to changing rooms and toilets plummeted.

🙄

There was more than 1 post on her, and the daily mail (as always) relayed it too.

Given that the trans person in question was not a criminal and was happily married, has full support of her and others' teams (I didn't see any of them post her on their twitter timeline in an abusive or harassing manner trying to cause trouble for them) and just living their life, and I don't see what right JKR has to harass them by bringing them to the spotlight of 14M followers and the dailymail readers.

AFAIK, this person is not going to "stop being trans" or give up being a football manager just because she doesn't have JKR's approval, and her team aren't going to suddenly stop being supportive of her either because JKR logged into twitter again to express her personal disapproval. This is what I wonder. Why do trans people need JKR's personal approval to live their life?

"What is it with TRA like yourself and your obsession with genitals?"

I'm not JKR. I don't think about people's sex, sexuality, identity, what facilities they use or prefer to use or anything like that as soon as I get out of bed. It's not any of my concern. I also consider the use of "TRA" derogatory and it seems to be used as a slur for anyone who disagrees with you. People here frequently try to make out "being gender critical is the default and everyone agrees" and then they make thread after thread of how their family and friends abandon them over it, funny that.

The manager in question represents an excellent step forward in trans representation in football. They don't represent any kind of step forward in women's representation in football.

I'm arguing even though tbh I agree with you that tweeting something so focused on a harmless individual was quite a long way over the line. I don't think JKR should have done it.

I disagree hugely that talking about sex is about 'what's between [anyone's] legs' as if sex is not about the entirety of who we are as human beings.

And I agree with you that I don't think being GC is the default. I think the majority don't think about any of these issues very much, but if they do, they think there is such a thing as a 'sex change' caused by surgery, ie pretty much where advanced liberals were in about 1973, or 1995. I'm aware that being GC puts me way out in the extreme end of this. And yet to me it is the only possible place I can be. I can't say that transwomen are women/ trans men are men. I don't think that's true. I think whether people have had surgery or not is irrelevant and private and i support people living their lives, as men/transwomen and women/transmen. Which apparently sticks me so far out to the extreme that I might as well be on the streets for Reform, despite voting Labour/Liberal Dem since I could vote.

"The manager in question represents an excellent step forward in trans representation in football. They don't represent any kind of step forward in women's representation in football."

Maybe they just chose the best person for the job regardless who or what they are, did JKR ever consider that? Which brings us back to the Q of why the trans manager and their team (who support her) all need JKR's personal approval?

"JKR doesn't like me, so I'm going to now be miserable and give up my life"- AFAIK no trans person has to date said this, but it appears to be JKR's goal in life now.

I didn't say they weren't the best person for the job (amd neither did jkr). They can be that, and still represent something positive for men's football.

how much do you know about the English football league? women's football? girls football?

This is a step backwards, and it is outrageous that he replaced a perfectly good female goalie with a bloke. His aim: to trans the entire team.

So again: what is the point of women's sport?

The poster just uses the same statement over and over. You are right that it has been refuted with evidence nearly every time. But it is inconvenient to acknowledge the reality.

I keep looking to see if a new poll has been done. I can only assume that the people who sponsored the polls had seen the tide change and therefore didn’t want the poll to be published with this data updated.

I'm not sure that the public data polls are sponsored. I think YouGov itself commisions and provides them for free.

Found this on its website: It is YouGov’s social mission to make people’s opinions heard for the benefit of our local, national, and international communities......This mission encompasses our public data offering (the data we provide to the world for free), our ongoing efforts to ensure our panel is as representative as possible, and our socially-oriented work with clients, partners, and suppliers.

So I guess YouGov themselves will decide whether and when to update the 'Transgender Rights' survey. Happy to be corrected if I have misunderstood how YouGov works.

corporate.yougov.com/esg/our-esg-approach/

"His aim: to trans the entire team"

really?

In 2022, before joining Sutton, Clark wrote on social media: “At some point we will field a team solely of trans women for the first time in history. How good is that?”

From the coverage in the Telegraph in September.

I am no longer going to engage with your complete and utter bullshit. You are not listening. As pp said: your account is set to broadcast only.

it doesn't matter how many times we give Christranapple the info - they are ignoring it in favour of shouting all over us about how horrible we are how we want to wipe trans people off the face of the earth and are generally mean girls being mean.

I am no longer going to engage. I am going to pretend that i have this poster on block so i don't see the bullshit.

You know the backstory of this lovely person harassing others and posting threats don't you?

Or is that conveniently forgotten?