Moira Deeming in Australia - thread 3

[TheSandgroper]

Following on from busy threads 1 and 2

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5167282-in-australia-moira-deeming-defamation-trial-now-on

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5172553-moira-deeming-defamation-trial-thread-2-from-australia

Keep on discussing, ladies. Change never happens in silence.

Still legal arguing about which things should be submitted or not because of which particular law or previous case. I can’t follow it. I’m falling asleep. It would be a great insomnia cure.

They’re quoting Ricky Gervais now! A recent tweet about being a vegetarian and Hitler being one too. Showing the stupidity/ridiculous of association with bad figures just because you agree on something.

Pesutto’s man needs to stop touching his beard. He’s groping his own face. It’s disturbing. Get this man a razor, and a tissue to spit his chewing gum into. Open mouthed chewing. Eww.

Judge is telling them to discuss things over lunch instead of taking up the court’s time. Judge doesn’t want to watch a 2.5hr video unless it’s essential. Pesutto’s lawyer only got the documents/videos last night and said he couldn’t discuss them with Deeming’s lawyer this morning because Deeming’s lawyer was on a plane to Melbourne.

Showing the stupidity/ridiculous of association with bad figures just because you agree on something.

So basically summing up all three threads on this subject and any other thread consisting of “oh look who you’re supporting now” nonsense.

I missed the first hour back after lunch. It appears that we’re watching Ruckshan’s livestream video from the rally. The judge has been pausing it at times to ask questions. He can’t make out what people are saying. It is difficult.

That Ruckshan livestream was heavy going. It was utter chaos with people just all milling around and not the clearest delineation between the LWS rally and the TRA protesters.

I think what is absolutely clear from the footage, though, is that the NNs (men in black with nothing identifying on their clothing) were absolutely nothing to do with LWS, they were initially much further away down the street and I'm sure they were doing Nazi salute(s) way down there, even before the LWS rally got started, and they weren't even noticeable from where the LWS crowd had gathered. The TRA side were already banging drums, blowing whistles and shouting through the loudspeaker(s) before the LWS rally started too.

At some point, but I couldn't really make out exactly how it happened, the NNs were on the steps of parliament, with the Police there with them, near, but not right up beside, nor amongst the LWS rally and no-one, except the TRAs who were then facing them, paid them any attention. I never saw the NNs paying LWS any attention, or interacting with them, either.

I cannot believe the Police then marched the NNs out in a line, whilst they had their arms raised holding the nazi salute and walked them right past the TRA side of the pavement. I don't know the geography of the streets, but I'd be surprised there was no other way to walk them away from the area.

There's no way the Police had that under any sort of real control, and if it had all kicked off, there would have been a serious riot.

It's outrageous the lengths some people will go to, to prevent women from speaking.

HH has also said he's hoping to try and get the judgement out by the end of the first week in December!

He then mentioned something about the 6th of December.

Judge is planning to have the judgement handed down by 6 December this year.

Court adjourned until 10:15am Monday 14 October. More junior counsel things of playing videos or disputing particular points. It will likely be virtual with Deeming’s side remaining in Sydney instead of flying to Melbourne.

Pesutto’s side brought up something about tweets made during the trial and wanting to enter them into evidence about the relationship/association between Deeming, Jones and KJK. Deeming’s side pointed out that the other two women of course have an interest in the case and what’s being said about them. Pesutto’s side seemed to suggest that Jones and KJK should have been called by Deeming to give evidence and be questioned. Deeming’s side said that the opportunity for anything like that should have been brought during Deeming’s questioning.

Some particular precedent was brought up. Jones and someone. I assume that Twitter will have details on that.

The judge is very over watching videos and doesn’t want any more unless they’re directly relevant and will be directly referred to in closing arguments.

Looked like only two people in the public gallery, and no Deeming or Pesutto.

The judge with his head in his hands listening to that bloke trying to show how the two women were firmly in Moira's camp. As if they are convicted extremists.

These are women your client settled with privately, and stating they were not indeed nazis or nazi adjacent.

I'd have loved them to call KJK into court to be honest.

That is quick!

The Rukshan video is heavy going, but very illustrative.

I went through it and made notes for another thread when it came out. And the neo Nazis spent over half of their time down the end of the Victorian Socialists and Antifa. And interacting with them.

I have asked multiple times on threads if that made the Victorian Socialists and Antifa ‘aligned’ with the neo Nazis and not one person a who has relied on using the Melbourne rally to aligned KJK and LWS with Nazis has ever answered. I hope the judge will see the ridiculousness of this accusations by now anyway.

And the question does still remain (but not relevant to Moira’s case), if those men did a Nazi salute earlier to antagonize the socialists and antifa, why did the police allow them up the other end? I understand the police believed they had it all under control, but it could have been very dangerous.

Thanks Feral.

@Crafting1Queen very good summary. The layout is that Spring Street which is what Parliament faces runs North South. Bourke St ends facing Parliament. Parliament faces West. When the police evacuated the NN, they moved them south because Antifa was blocking the way north and the TRAs were blocking the way west. The south route brought them into the buffer zone between the women and the TRAs. Moving south was also the planned safe route for women to leave the rally at the end and that was pre-determined by the police and the organisers. Hence the only way for the nn to leave the area realistically was through this buffer zone unless the police had cleared the counter protestors (antifa and the TRAs) first. Course the nn took advantage and saluted the TRAs on the way out.

After the nazis left, the police line, including horses, that separated the nn and antifa formed a second line behind the first line of police. Many Anti/Victoria Socialists, whoever, joined the TRAs and it was after this point that the TRAs got really aggressive and threatening. [In Rukshan's video there is a spot where you can see some of them joining the TRAs from the right of the screen.] The event wrapped up about 30 mins early because the police asked the women. This is where the allegations of abusing police horses came from. It would have helped if the police kettled antifa till the event was over because the layout makes it possible but maybe they didn't have the police numbers. The TRAs really were a bit of a damp squib till antifa reinforced their numbers.

Many women went to a pre-planned location and later heard that many TRAs/antifas stayed behind after the event to fight the police.

thanks Filomene for the info about the reports from women meeting up later and the groups that stayed.

I think the TRA group used the activists who got into the women’s group as disruptors as their major effort until antifa arrived. Ie the person that got the mic and the drama interruption.

Yes, It is I think significant that at various points the nn (Thomas Sewell) was talking over the women. I hope he judge picks that up. They also took to the steps to salute just after KJK arrived. Up until then they were on the street level. So it is plausible that the reason they were there was to capitalise on the media attention that they knew was going to be present. [Antifa had put out digital fliers so the nazis knew they were going to be there.]. It was all so performative. I watched Rukshan's video shortly after the event and have been able to piece together some of what I saw with some of what happened. If you want to read my version, I wrote Glinner's substack "How they smeared Posie Parker in Melbourne". I keep a low profile due to my work and didn't attach my name. Two scuffles occurred before Rukshan arrived. The TRAs were trying to remove the women from the steps and take it. The police had told the organisers that if the TRAs arrived first, they had no legal power to move them on so some women arrived at about 9:30 am IIRC. After the first scuffle where police did nothing but watch, the women complained to the police liaison. About 30 mins later a second scuffle occurred when a TRA threw liquid on a marshal next to me and at this point police pushed them across the road. By then they had climbed a few steps and were trying to get behind the women to take their space. [I have the second scuffle on video and the police moving them across the road]. The police seemed very reluctant to move them on until after the liquid was thrown.

Link to glinner post mentioned in Filomene' s post

https://open.substack.com/pub/grahamlinehan/p/how-they-smeared-posie-in-melbourne?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

Thank you @FeralWoman for the updates

And @Filomene for your first hand experiences at LWS Melbourne.

Well done for doing that @Helleofabore for all the good it did

Brilliant Filomene, I had not seen this.

Thanks Boiled!!

Thanks Eresh. It does get read because I notice bits of what I and others post being used later on threads. Even if it seems to not directly relate to the thread at the time and is seen as adding to detailing. That information gets read and evaluated.

It is actually why I keep reposting stuff, even on the same thread.

Of course, I would expect people to go and fact check themselves to make sure, but it provides a starting point for finding an accurate account of what has happened / what people have and haven’t said and what might influence those statements made.

I hadn't either, I've just read it whilst having my breakfast.

@Filomene 💜I can't imagine how it must have felt being stuck in amongst all that that day!

I've said it before, but what a fantastic resource mumsnet is. Eyewitness accounts, forensic scrutiny of videos, in-the-know information. The lot.

Thank you to all all of you. Invaluable.

“Two scuffles occurred before Rukshan arrived. The TRAs were trying to remove the women from the steps and take it. The police had told the organisers that if the TRAs arrived first, they had no legal power to move them on so some women arrived at about 9:30 am IIRC. After the first scuffle where police did nothing but watch, the women complained to the police liaison. About 30 mins later a second scuffle occurred when a TRA threw liquid on a marshal next to me and at this point police pushed them across the road. By then they had climbed a few steps and were trying to get behind the women to take their space.”

That is really concerning.

Firstly that the police would not do anything until a woman was assaulted. Well done all of you for being there!!

But it also then shows how useless getting a permit is. If a group can just take over the slot and the spot, it makes a mockery of getting that permit. Yes, it can be considered ‘peaceful protesting‘. It does show how totalitarian that group of extreme transgender activists are to stop women from speaking.

It also gives an insight into how they then dealt with the NSN. I wonder if now the salute is illegal, they would be able to act to remove them these days.

And ffs, openly chewing gum in court!

Good Lord 😁

That's what happened at LWS Manchester. The TRA's surrounded the statue and the police told us if we went over there we would get arrested.
Also - they think KJK should be there - well she would have been - except her visa didn't come through