In Australia - Moira Deeming defamation trial now on

[TheSandgroper]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-17/moira-deeming-john-pesutto-defamation-trial-day-two/104360100

This is from our very TRA ABC. Please note the comment from “Mr Southwick, a Jewish MP re Angie Jones’ tweet”. Well, Angie Jones is as Jewish as they come but they don’t say that.

Also, for, those who don’t know, see Angie on m.youtube.com/@TERFTalkDownUnder, though she hasn’t posted for a while. Some really good interviews.

No need for rudeness. I've been following the debate for a very long time and am well aware. I agree women have been winning the argument, thanks to a lot of patient work over the past decade. Which is why I'm alarmed by the increasing infiltration of the far right into the GC movement and the current tendency to shout "groomer", "paedo" or tell women they "support mutilation of children" when they express a different view (usually a left wing one, not a GC one).

I would hate to see the progress we made be rolled back which is why I think Deeming's case is risky. If she loses, it will give people in Australia carte blanche to ignore her and write off what she says. Its also unlikely she'll be back on the Liberal front bench, too risky, so she's neutralised her own political career. We (globally) need more GC politicians not fewer.

She'd have been better settling and agreeing a form of words with Pesutto as KJK and Angie Jones did.

Ah, but what if she wins. ( you'll hate that) We haven't seen John Presutto on the stand yet. His reputation is being damaged by this, he's not just going to walk away even if he wins.

If she wins then good for her. I think there might be some wider implications for employers (as discussed upthread) but if the court thinks shes been defamed I'll be interested to read the judgement and what the damages are. And if the Liberal party reinstate her.
Yes we haven't seen Pesutto yet, so obviously the news is going to be more critical of Deeming at the moment as that's where the focus is.

@Helleofabore

Can I ask what are the far right conferences that would platform women in the way you suggest? Or is this theoretical?

Not at all theoretical. Taking CPAC Australia as an example, I note Sall Grover on on the list as a speaker for CPAC 2024 in October. They are using her for outrage bait to sell tickets because she is in the news and trans is a hot topic among conservatives.

Now, also speaking is Michelle Pearse from the Australian Christian Lobby, who "has been a tireless advocate for the protection of life, religious freedom, and the preservation of traditional family values". I don't quite see how the two women harmonise.

So now you are saying it is a far right event?

I asked specifically what is an example of a far right event that would platform women’s right speakers.

For Australia, yes, it is.

It isn't an example of extremism, but as far as Conservative politics in Australia range, CPAC is at the far end.

What is the GC movement? Who are they as a group? And where do you see the far right infiltrating this GC movement.

i don’t see losing one politician the far side of the world as significant, especially since most people would never have even heard of her. Like so what if she loses. Reality is coming anyway, even to Australia. Which is not a country at the forefront of women’s rights so far.

You seem to believe there is a very significant import to her. Not sure I get that. Of far more signifance is that Pesutto has had to apologise to two women.

Sadky lacking is a proper journalistic analysis of why Pesutto took action against her in the first place. Or analysis of why the police didn’t intervene when the far right attended the rally. If someone has a link to that, that would be great.

Court has just finished for today. Lots of videos and audio recordings.

Pesutto will be on the stand tomorrow sometime after the opening argument from his KC. Court starts at 10:15am AEST/Melbourne time.

How is this a far right event?

And why should two women harmonise, why is that necessary. I’m sure both women believe in religious freedom. I assume Pearse is anti abortion and Grover is for women’s choice. Both might agree that the family is a good bedrock on society.

Also Liz Truss was a speaker two years ago, so your claims it’s a far right thing is nonsense. Which of the other speakers in 2024 support the Far Right?

Yeah sounds like not much going on today and a short session.
The article I just read was confusingly short on details about a "double cross"

Pesutto tomorrow so I guess we'll start to hear more from Chrysanthou

Liz Truss was a speaker two years ago, so your claims it’s a far right thing is nonsense.
Liz Truss is batshit and believes in a "deep state" conspiracy theory. She's also gone extremely Trumpist and appears to be closely linked (I'd guess funded) by the Heritage Foundation.

https://www.heritage.org/europe/commentary/liz-truss-knows-how-save-america

I'm not sure she's a good example of how CPAC isn't on the hard right

@CassieMaddox It wasn’t really short. I think lunch started 5 minutes early and the day finished 15 minutes early.

GC movement - people campaigning for women's sex based rights

Far right infiltration- we all know this so I'd rather not answer as it will just prompt faux outrage. Easy enough to find if you use advanced search on here or Google.

If your opinion is "so what if she loses" I'm not quite sure why you are being so hostile to me.

The "significant import" to me is I've personally been on the receiving end of a lot of hostility for saying KJK has links to the far right, including people saying I'm defaming her. I'm interested that's precisely whats being presented in court and will be interested in what a judge says about whether or not its reasonable to say that.

If Deeming loses then it shows that its not unreasonable to hold an honest opinion KJK associates with the far right. Even if she wins, the judgement will be interesting to me.

But quite outside that the case is interesting to me because of the insight into the back rooms of politics

The thing with polarisation is that extremes on one side tend to be matched by extremes on the other. It is pointess to castigate the far right when the far Left is also active. They mirror each other. Part of the reason that the right is doing so well across Europe and further afield, is because the Left has become a monster itself.

I'd say the right is about boundaries and borders - about clear definitions; whereas the Left is about openness and fluidity, about dissolving boundaries and definitions.

So one one side you have extreme nationalists and the other you have sexual fetishists, paedophiles and others intent on over-stepping boundaries and trying re-define the world in their own image.

Sorry but that's absolute rubbish. There are no "far left" parties in power in Europe or the west generally - one can't say the same about the far right (Orban/Meloni/ Wilders/Trump)

One could equally say the increase in far left activity is a response to the far right and the polarisation of debate is caused by the right wing "castigating" people with left wing views. It's just nonsense.

Is "castigating" the new "scolding" I wonder? It seems to be featuring on here a lot as a way of shutting down opinions.

You see hostility in anyone whose views don’t accord with your own. Remarkable you claim to be Gender Critical yet you seem to disagree with those of us who are.

Can you clarify how you think if Deeming loses this means KJK has links to the Far Right?

Who is shutting down your opinions?

No. Because I don't want to engage with someone implying I'm bad faith ("claim to be gender critical"). Not worth my time or energy

Many woould argue that movements such Antifa and Defund the Police, the facts of uncontrolled migration, gender ideology and so on are all representative of the far left. It is these things that people labelled as being of the right are pushing back against.

Antifa and other leftist mobs are not afraid to use violence either. Look what happened in Portland and in other U.S cities, and look at the attacks on Jewish schools, hospitals and synagogues. And look at the rage, hate and aggression unleashed on women trying to defend their boundaries. I was outside the Labour conference last year as trans right mobs screamed abuse for three hours - just in response to women speaking. That included people wearing Trade union lanyards and Labour party delegates.

You can't get all narky when someone presents you with an argument you don't approve of. The fact remains that right and left mirror each other - certainly at the extremes. Trans ideology is very extreme. so is 'Defund the Police'. Wanting no national bordrers and no national self definition is also very extreme.

Have you a list of banned adjectives and verbs - lest you get triggered?

Yet your response to my one post above was to claim its " rubbish" and then castigate me for using the word castigate.

Now you’re refusing to debate, while complaining about your opinions being shut down. Very odd of you. Could it be that you don’t like my opinions, and want to shut me down. Maybe, you don’t feel you can give a proper response to my post, so instead of dealing with it, because you can’t, you resort to this non response.

Your hostility to KJK, not a woman I agree with in everything, your post that Liz Truss as Far right something, while claiming to be GC, nah, not buying it. Not until, you stop playing games, because it’s my opinion that’s what you are at.

I'm not sure what people expect to happen when they post in a confrontational and/or provocative manner. When someone goes looking for a fight they tend to find one. It is the simple mechanics of opposition and disagreement.

If someone pushes, inevitably someone else will push back.

Trans rights activists continually push at the boundaries....then get enraged when women push back and say "no".

What is viewed as ‘left’ now has become very extreme, and anti science. That bit is quite tragic. It is almost Nihilistic, but ironically wanting to control against freedom for any dissenting views. Unfettered and unbridled nihilistic and anarchic behaviour from me, with an iron grip against/ on thee.

@Cailin66

What is viewed as ‘left’ now has become very extreme, and anti science. That bit is quite tragic. It is almost Nihilistic, but ironically wanting to control against freedom for any dissenting views. Unfettered and unbridled nihilistic and anarchic behaviour from me, with an iron grip against/ on thee.

Anti-science? The Left? I was going to answer another one of your posts seriously, but I'm now not certain you're a genuine poster.

@Cailin66

How is this a far right event?
I've already answered this question.

And why should two women harmonise, why is that necessary. I’m sure both women believe in religious freedom. I assume Pearse is anti abortion and Grover is for women’s choice. Both might agree that the family is a good bedrock on society.
These are examples of two quite different women. I'm not so certain that Grover would be happy to endorse the Conservative religious idea of 'traditional family values' - the tradwife, more or less. It isn't just 'the family'. It's a 1920s type of family with all the prayers after dinner included.

Also Liz Truss was a speaker two years ago, so your claims it’s a far right thing is nonsense. Which of the other speakers in 2024 support the Far Right?
They're all ultra-Conservative and speaking at an Australian CPAC, and that's bold. They all do. (And they might have Matt Walsh.)