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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

In Australia - Moira Deeming defamation trial now on

1000 replies

TheSandgroper · 17/09/2024 07:29

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-17/moira-deeming-john-pesutto-defamation-trial-day-two/104360100

This is from our very TRA ABC. Please note the comment from “Mr Southwick, a Jewish MP re Angie Jones’ tweet”. Well, Angie Jones is as Jewish as they come but they don’t say that.

Also, for, those who don’t know, see Angie on m.youtube.com/@TERFTalkDownUnder, though she hasn’t posted for a while. Some really good interviews.

'Are you accusing me of having Nazi links?': Secret recording played at Victorian Liberals defamation trial

A Victorian court hears a recording of a meeting between then-Liberal MP Moira Deeming and senior party figures, including Opposition Leader John Pesutto.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-17/moira-deeming-john-pesutto-defamation-trial-day-two/104360100

OP posts:
Thread gallery
34
timenowplease · 22/09/2024 18:07

AlisonDonut · 22/09/2024 13:14

Weirdly I am Canadian, which I stated on here just a few weeks ago. So I'm guessing the spreadsheet has been cross referenced and this has been mentioned in order for me to accuse them of mentioning me, so that they can then respond that 'not everything is about you, Alison'.

So dull. And yes I do have close relatives in Canada, USA, UK, and Australia! And Papua New Guinea so that will need to go onto the database. Expect a sly dig about those in the coming weeks.

[Cue: database, what database, I don't keep a database, now you are just being paranoid].

[Cue: database, what database, I don't keep a database, now you are just being paranoid].

Ahh, this evokes fond memories of another forum, now defunct. and an epic 'Dossiergate' furore.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if it was the same poster.

CassieMaddox · 22/09/2024 18:21

timenowplease · 22/09/2024 18:07

[Cue: database, what database, I don't keep a database, now you are just being paranoid].

Ahh, this evokes fond memories of another forum, now defunct. and an epic 'Dossiergate' furore.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if it was the same poster.

🙄 this is the only place on the Internet I post. I don't have a dossier or a spreadsheet, just a memory. And making the extrapolation that anyone who shares an opinion that you disagree with must be "the same poster" makes you look a bit desperate in your denial.

It's the same behaviour that posters on here laugh about from TRAs - the "6 sock puppets".

CassieMaddox · 22/09/2024 18:24

Imnobody4 · 22/09/2024 18:02

Yes dear I know that. That's why
Yesterday, his lawyers tried to suggest that any harm from defamation was reduced because when @elonmusk acquired Twitter, the platform lost a lot of respectable users. This meant the reach of Pesutto’s defamatory statements wasn’t as great.

Let's see what happens later.

Yesterday, as in Saturday when they weren't in court? Confused
Do you have a link to that because I haven't seen it anywhere?

timenowplease · 22/09/2024 18:30

CassieMaddox · 22/09/2024 18:21

🙄 this is the only place on the Internet I post. I don't have a dossier or a spreadsheet, just a memory. And making the extrapolation that anyone who shares an opinion that you disagree with must be "the same poster" makes you look a bit desperate in your denial.

It's the same behaviour that posters on here laugh about from TRAs - the "6 sock puppets".

What denial? What are you on about? How do you know I disagreed with the poster I mentioned? All very odd.

And again, I never mentioned you. That fact that you feel to respond as you have is quite damning.

AlisonDonut · 22/09/2024 18:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Helleofabore · 22/09/2024 19:06

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I have been talking about it, just not here on this thread.

Cailin66 · 22/09/2024 19:38

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/09/2024 16:44

Do you think the leader of the Liberal Party John Pesutto having had to already apologies to one women* for smearing her as 'nazi' and 'extremist' would make some of us this side of the world think that Pesutto's got a bit of a woman issue. The women hatefully labeled by him are known for standing up for women's rights.

Two women. Angie Jones as well (she's Jewish Confused)

I couldn't remember the other woman's name so left that out. Moira is the third woman. Actual woman of course. Biological woman. So two apologies out of three so far. It's going well for Pesutto ....

For those of us who live in the real work, the one which knows that men can't become women, it's actually funny watching posters on here trying to defend Pesutto. Like seriously.

But either way, it's all good. Because sunlight is good.

Cailin66 · 22/09/2024 19:50

CassieMaddox · 22/09/2024 12:27

Also interesting the posters commenting on this thread are the same, and apparently have in depth knowledge of both political landscapes. I'm surprised that there are that many people who are confident in the nuance of both the UK and Aus systems. I think I've seen a couple talk in depth about the Canadian system too.

Yes it's shocking that women on a discussion board based in the UK would have a view on things in a place whose politics originates in the UK system. Not only that, they have a legal system based on the Common Law system, the very same one they have in the UK.

Colour me stupid that women can actually think for themselves, have an opinion and comment. It's not like UK media comment on stuff in Australia, or that many of us have relations who went over there, or live there.

But apparently it is only you who has the beating pulse of this subject and only you should be allowed to comment. Because the rest of us have entirely the wrong end of the stick.

Imnobody4 · 22/09/2024 19:51

CassieMaddox · 22/09/2024 16:23

I just read her affidavit from May, which is like Swiss cheese with redacted paras withdrawn after her testimony.

Anyway, on Pg35 para 174 (for those who need precise lines) she testifies:

On 25 March 2023, Mr Pesutto published an article about me entitled "Decency and diversity must unite us". Amongst other things, in that article, Mr Pesutto wrote: "Nazis have no place in our community and those who share platforms with or associate with extremist groups, including neo-Nazi activists, have no place in the Liberal Party." I hadn't seen this article at the time and have only discovered and read it recently. When I read it, I thought Mr Pesutto was directly saying that I shared platforms with and associated with extremist groups, including neo-Nazi activists, and that is why I was being expelled from the Victorian Parliamentary Liberal Party as having no place in it.

The wording in this is strikingly similar to his "apology" to KJK

I do not believe that it is appropriate to knowingly associate or share platforms with individuals who hold or express these extremist views. I also believe that there is no room to be blithe or cavalier in the face of Neo-Nazism.

So I still don't think he admitted this was defamatory at all.

Passages are redacted due to sensitivity eg protecting confidential or personal info. It isn't a correction.

CassieMaddox · 22/09/2024 20:21

timenowplease · 22/09/2024 18:30

What denial? What are you on about? How do you know I disagreed with the poster I mentioned? All very odd.

And again, I never mentioned you. That fact that you feel to respond as you have is quite damning.

Alison was talking about me when she mentioned spreadsheets. You replied and said it reminded you of a dossier, maybe same poster. Hence also talking about me. So I replied Confused
Is it "damning" to reply when people are implying things about oneself that aren't true?

CassieMaddox · 22/09/2024 20:23

Imnobody4 · 22/09/2024 19:51

Passages are redacted due to sensitivity eg protecting confidential or personal info. It isn't a correction.

Ah OK. I read she'd had to withdraw them as incorrect so no longer admissible. This is part of the problem with not finding many places that are factually discussing the trial. Most of what is available is opinion pieces.

Also, did you find a link to your statement about Musk/Twitter? I'd be interested to see.

CassieMaddox · 22/09/2024 20:30

Cailin66 · 22/09/2024 19:38

I couldn't remember the other woman's name so left that out. Moira is the third woman. Actual woman of course. Biological woman. So two apologies out of three so far. It's going well for Pesutto ....

For those of us who live in the real work, the one which knows that men can't become women, it's actually funny watching posters on here trying to defend Pesutto. Like seriously.

But either way, it's all good. Because sunlight is good.

It's not "sunlight" when people are not discussing facts but opinions, and not being accurate in what they say.

It is entirely possible to believe men can't become women and think that Moira Deeming handled the whole episode badly (not being accurate in her statements, talking to journalists, ignoring directions from her boss, not seeking advice on controversial appearances) and it's not surprising that resulted in her being expelled from the party room.

I don't think anyone is above criticism; in fact implying that certain kinds of people can't be held accountable because of their beliefs is more often a hallmark of TRAs and I like many women on here hate it.

CassieMaddox · 22/09/2024 20:34

Cailin66 · 22/09/2024 19:50

Yes it's shocking that women on a discussion board based in the UK would have a view on things in a place whose politics originates in the UK system. Not only that, they have a legal system based on the Common Law system, the very same one they have in the UK.

Colour me stupid that women can actually think for themselves, have an opinion and comment. It's not like UK media comment on stuff in Australia, or that many of us have relations who went over there, or live there.

But apparently it is only you who has the beating pulse of this subject and only you should be allowed to comment. Because the rest of us have entirely the wrong end of the stick.

Eh? I'm discussing. Posters saying others opinions are superficial and those posters clearly don't understand, while offering no opinions in return aren't discussing.

Aspects I'd like to discuss:
Why is it that Moira Deeming was inaccurate in her statements? Why did Renee Heath sent the notes to Moira despite being explicitly told not to? How did those notes then get leaked to the press?

Or even, do you think at the end of week 1 that Deeming will win, and if so, what have you heard this week that makes you think that?

If she loses, what do you think the implications are?

Cailin66 · 22/09/2024 20:40

CassieMaddox · 22/09/2024 20:34

Eh? I'm discussing. Posters saying others opinions are superficial and those posters clearly don't understand, while offering no opinions in return aren't discussing.

Aspects I'd like to discuss:
Why is it that Moira Deeming was inaccurate in her statements? Why did Renee Heath sent the notes to Moira despite being explicitly told not to? How did those notes then get leaked to the press?

Or even, do you think at the end of week 1 that Deeming will win, and if so, what have you heard this week that makes you think that?

If she loses, what do you think the implications are?

I hope she wins as it’s clear she was standing up for women. Your posts all point the other way.

Doesn’t matter if she wins, she wins just by taking the case. That’s enough, because she’s brave, for all woman. In this particular case the leader has made two apologies to women.

Do you believe men can become women?

Cailin66 · 22/09/2024 20:44

CassieMaddox · 22/09/2024 20:30

It's not "sunlight" when people are not discussing facts but opinions, and not being accurate in what they say.

It is entirely possible to believe men can't become women and think that Moira Deeming handled the whole episode badly (not being accurate in her statements, talking to journalists, ignoring directions from her boss, not seeking advice on controversial appearances) and it's not surprising that resulted in her being expelled from the party room.

I don't think anyone is above criticism; in fact implying that certain kinds of people can't be held accountable because of their beliefs is more often a hallmark of TRAs and I like many women on here hate it.

It’s all over the media, that’s sunlight.

As a biological realist, a female one, there is not much that TRA’s who act in the interests of men that resonates with me. You seem to think it’s some kind of slur, in fact I’ve no idea what your point is.

CassieMaddox · 22/09/2024 20:49

Cailin66 · 22/09/2024 20:40

I hope she wins as it’s clear she was standing up for women. Your posts all point the other way.

Doesn’t matter if she wins, she wins just by taking the case. That’s enough, because she’s brave, for all woman. In this particular case the leader has made two apologies to women.

Do you believe men can become women?

Do you think she will win based on the evidence so far though? That's a different question to whether you hope she'll win.

I think if she loses because it's shown she's unreliable, that's quite damaging to us actually.

I think if she loses because the judge agrees with Pesutto that his assessment of KJK was an "honest opinion" and that Pesutto wasn't the cause of the social media comments etc thats very damaging to us. Because its more ammo to those who say GC women are bigots and should be ignored.

Do I think men can become women? No. I'm a gender critical feminist.

CassieMaddox · 22/09/2024 20:51

Cailin66 · 22/09/2024 20:44

It’s all over the media, that’s sunlight.

As a biological realist, a female one, there is not much that TRA’s who act in the interests of men that resonates with me. You seem to think it’s some kind of slur, in fact I’ve no idea what your point is.

It's not all over the media in the UK where I am, and most material on the Internet is pay walled. If you have links I'd be interested to read them.

I don't get your point with TRAs

CassieMaddox · 22/09/2024 20:51

Does "biological realist" mean you aren't a feminist?

CassieMaddox · 22/09/2024 20:54

Actually, to be very clear I think Deeming would have done much better to settle out of court like KJK and Jones did.

This case seems like its going to be damaging to all involved, including her.

Cailin66 · 22/09/2024 22:11

CassieMaddox · 22/09/2024 20:49

Do you think she will win based on the evidence so far though? That's a different question to whether you hope she'll win.

I think if she loses because it's shown she's unreliable, that's quite damaging to us actually.

I think if she loses because the judge agrees with Pesutto that his assessment of KJK was an "honest opinion" and that Pesutto wasn't the cause of the social media comments etc thats very damaging to us. Because its more ammo to those who say GC women are bigots and should be ignored.

Do I think men can become women? No. I'm a gender critical feminist.

Have not been able to follow it fully because Aus media is paywalled mostly. So not able to give an opinion on whether she will win or not.

As regards bigots, GC women are not bigots, so who cares what nutters think of us, their day and control of our views are done. Who are they by the way? These people we should care about? Who do you mean?

Because in case you’ve been living under a toadstool, women are winning back the safe spaces, winning the medical argument (Cass).

Cailin66 · 22/09/2024 22:15

CassieMaddox · 22/09/2024 20:51

Does "biological realist" mean you aren't a feminist?

I’m a feminist, but others might have different definitions of feminism than mine, there’s no consensus on feminism. Equality is what it means for me. And I don’t hate men. But I hate men pretending to be women if they insist that I’ve to go along with it. No problem being polite, but no penis inside the ladies toilets. Ever. Even castrated ones.

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