Anyone know why the thread about the death of the young transman has been deleted

[Taytoface]

Horrific story about death due to surgical complications, was reading it and poof. Anyone know what happened. This is such important information to get out there.

Looks like another misapplication of 'spectrum' where the intended term is - I assume - 'continuum', with 'left' wing' and all associated - 'beliefs about the world around them: their religion, their politics, ethics, hierarchical beliefs, resistance to change, thoughts on authority, tradition, etc. All combined contribute to where a person sits on the spectrum.' at one end and 'right wing' with ditto at the other end?

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1986-20930-001

Look, there is no person in the world with an entirely identical 'set' of beliefs as any other. People often agree on some points and disagree on others. Not everyone of a particular religion are of a specific political leaning, to take one rather obvious example. Even within any religion there are schools with different beliefs, tendencies, leanings, and even within every school there are schisms and differences of opinion, and even within every person we change our minds from time to time.

Your definition of far right is attempting to create a Platonic ideal of a far right supporter. It might be an interesting thought experiment, but it's almost guaranteed to be proven wrong as soon as you try to describe it, because the basic premise (people are one thing or another based on a fixed set of characteristics) is fatally flawed.

Where have you got this definition from, could you expand?

I really don't know. I can't find the rationale for why people with gender dysphoria are to be treated using surgery in the first place. Maybe someone with more knowledge knows where to look? I can't find anything on NICE.

I think I'm going to contact my MP about this and the experimental surgeries planned at C&W. He's LD so I'm probably just going to label my self a terfy bigot, but I think I can't assume he won't be open to concerns otherwise that would be bigotry.

I need to have a think about what to write.

And it is a derail….

These terms encompass more than just politics. They embrace an individual's set of beliefs about the world around them: their religion, their politics, ethics, hierarchical beliefs, resistance to change, thoughts on authority, tradition, etc. All combined contribute to where a person sits on the spectrum

Using that definition, was Stalin far left or far right?

https://www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/spec-services/npc-crg/gender-dysphoria-clinical-programme/

T'he Clinical Reference Group for Adult Gender Dysphoria Services provides independent expert advice to the National Programme Board for Gender Dysphoria Services on the various aspects of the Board’s work.
The clinical members of the CRG are:

• (Chair) Dr Derek Glidden, Consultant Psychiatrist at Nottinghamshire Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust and NHS England National Specialty Adviser for Gender Dysphoria Services (Adults)
• Ms Tina Rashid, Consultant Urological Surgeon at St George’s University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust and NHS England National Clinical Lead for Surgery (Gender Dysphoria)
• Dr Laura Charlton, Consultant Clinical Psychologist, Leeds and York Partnership NHS Foundation Trust
• Dr Christine Mimnagh, General Practitioner and Clinical Lead for Gender Dysphoria Services at Mersey Care NHS Foundation Trust
• Dr Robert Wilson, Consultant in Public Health Medicine.'

Dr Glidden:

'https://x.com/JournalismSEEN/status/1778657667755421742'

'The NHS’s most senior adviser on transgender health, Dr Derek Glidden of the Nottingham Centre for Transgender Health, refused to share data about his clinic’s patients with the Cass Review'

From the last page of the Service Spec I posted upthread:

' ...to clarify that the following procedure is not funded by NHS
England: reversal of a previous surgical intervention for the treatment of
gender dysphoria that is requested due to regret or other change of mind by an
individual who no longer has a diagnosis of gender dysphoria'

Isn't this exactly what happened to Robbie Tulip? Before surgery is was all gender dysphoria and after surgery he was suddenly a mental health patient with OCD amongst other things?

'NHS England has received advice from surgeons who specialise in these
procedures that prior treatment with testosterone for a period of six to nine months results in tissue changes that may improve outcomes. This is an expert-opinion based observation and is not supported by research evidence.'

Also from the Service Spec. My bolding.

Improves outcomes for FTMs or MTFs?

'The services are delivered by the following organisations, designated by NHS
England (as of January 2023):

Mastectomy and related chest reconstruction

Brighton Hospital – Nuffield Health
Highgate Private Hospital London – Aspen Healthcare
Hull University Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust
Leicester Hospital – Nuffield Health
Mount Stuart Hospital, Torquay
Newcastle Hospital – Nuffield Health
Parkside Hospital London – Aspen Healthcare
Pennine Acute Hospital NHS Trust
Plymouth Hospital – Nuffield Health
Royal Cornwall Hospitals NHS Trust

Masculinising genital surgery

Chelsea and Westminster Hospital NHS Foundation Trust
New Victoria Hospital London
Parkside Hospital London – Aspen Healthcare

Feminising genital surgery

Brighton Hospital – Nuffield Health
Parkside Hospital London – Aspen Healthcare
St George’s University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust'

A good place to start is to look at who is giving backhanders to who. Think of the money that we know has gone to politicians that from pharmaceutical companies.

Such familiar names…

Charlton

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/nov/02/gender-identity-specialists-accuse-psychology-body-of-contributing-to-fear

Mimnagh - can't find the FWR threads I know that we had either via AS or Google.

https://fabnhsstuff.net/fab-stuff/fabtalks-in-conversation-with-dr-christine-mimnagh

@Helleofabore

Well you sound a bit sensitive if you think Hella was ‘talking down’ to you. She was just explaining how people have discussions online, giving evidence for their assertions and expecting others to provide evidence for theirs. 🤷🏼‍♀️

No, she was being patronising. I know how people have discussions online; I don't require an overbearing explanation.

@Caliga

Engage with the point of the thread which is the terribly sad death of a young woman at the hands of surgeons who led her to believe that experimental surgery would help her mentally.

We've established that all the content discussed was posted by this young woman.

She detailed at length the catheters, blood clots, hair loss, swelling, kidney failure, dialysis, internal bleeding and and a brain haemorrhage. Because she wanted to stand up to pee.

Ok @Caliga.

Anyway, back to the topic of these horrendous life-changing surgeries on young healthy people. Some interesting posts in the last page or so about who’s doing what and where in healthcare. I’m learning a lot.

@ArabellaScott

Your definition of far right is attempting to create a Platonic ideal of a far right supporter. It might be an interesting thought experiment, but it's almost guaranteed to be proven wrong as soon as you try to describe it, because the basic premise (people are one thing or another based on a fixed set of characteristics) is fatally flawed.

Where have you got this definition from, could you expand?

It wasn't a definition of far right in particular, but rather how 'far right' and 'far left' sit holistically within an individual's mindset.

Sources: many, having a degree or two in the subject

So it's subjective.

The diagnosis of gender dysphoria is also very subjective but the harm done to an individual who embarks on genital surgery is absolutely not.

Nope. They refer to tax-and-spend versus don't-tax-and-don't-spend. Distinct from left and right is authoritarianism versus liberalism (in the classical sense of the term "liberalism", not the modern bastardised sense). You can be a rightist liberal like Ayn Rand, a rightist authoritarian, a leftist authoritarian like Stalin, or a leftist liberal, or any gradation on that two-axis political spectrum. AND, you can be authoritarian about some things and liberal about others, such as how multiple US states outlaw abortion but any adult US citizen without a criminal record can walk into a gun shop and buy a firearm and the official position of the Republican Party is that this is how things should be.

What authoritarians on the left and right have in common is the willingness to suppress facts that undermine their worldviews. I can't remember which YouTuber said "facts don't care about your feelings", but he was right. Facts also don't care about your political leanings. The fruity website's users document facts.

That does sound about right. Iirc, he was told that if he didn't proceed with the surgery, they were discharging him from the service. So no more mental health treatment for gender dysphoria.

It's that authoritarian view that someone diagnosed with GD MUST have surgery.

Because the cheaper alternative methods have been suppressed under "no debate."

So they basically strong-armed him into surgery??

I think I remember him talking about his after care and the complications he was having and not receiving any support.

Yes he felt coerced into it.

All MH support was to be withdrawn if he didn't go ahead with it.

I'm pretty sure I'm safe in assuming all the MH 'support' he was getting was affirming.

This all seems so big. I'm just me. I don't have the ear of the people who have been persuaded to enable this stuff. Or who have got themselves in positions to just do what they want. Slowing this, never mind turning it round, seems so hopeless.

I cannot call Griffin Sivret "he".

This woman was coerced, with the threat of removal of mental health care as the threat, into being surgically mutilated.

I cannot divorce this case from all the other cases of medical misogyny I hear about. I see it as a new manifestation the same hatred of women and our natural bodies that was and still is used to justify symphysiotomies, the "husband stitch", and clitoridectomy as a "cure" for purported nymphomania.

And yet, on this thread, I simply pointed out that your initial statement :

"It encompasses all the hate and bilge that can't be expressed on the usual sites. This hostility and ideology stems most commonly from the far right."

was heavily biased and overly simplistic. I also pointed out after you accused me of 'calling you out' to which I again pointed to your initial post and reminded you that you were the one calling out posters.

This is not 'patronising', it is criticism. The rest is just you trying pivot and swivel and then claiming to be a victim of being 'talked down to' and 'patronised'.

You have done fuck all to support this initial claim of yours or any other that I have seen, despite your educational claims. Instead, you seem to only be interested in derailing the thread and distracting people from discussing the horror of Griffin's situation and what can be learned from it and what changes need to happen.

Are you even interested in what happened to Griffin? I can only assume not and that you are here to derail.

Are you even interested in what happened to Griffin? I can only assume not and that you are here to derail.

Nope, not one comment on Griffin's desperately hard experiences and death.

Just scolding about a random website hardly anyone here has accessed.