Olympic Boxer names J K Rowling in lawsuit for cyberbullying

[Dominoodles]

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/jk-rowling-elon-musk-imane-khelif-lawsuit-1236105185/

J.K. Rowling and Elon Musk have both been named in a criminal complaint filed to French authorities over alleged “acts of aggravated cyber harassment” against Algerian boxer and newl crowned Olympic champion Imane Khelif.

Nabil Boudi, the Paris-based attorney of Khelif, confirmed to Variety that both figures were mentioned in the body of the complaint, posted to the anti-online hatred center of the Paris public prosecutor’s office on Friday.

The lawsuit was filed against X, which under French law means that it was filed against unknown persons. That “ensure[s] that the ‘prosecution has all the latitude to be able to investigate against all people,” including those who may have written hateful messages under pseudonyms, said Boudi. The complaint nevertheless mentions famously controversial figures

I'm not sure it is a defamation action, or at least not as we would understand. France has some very stringent privacy laws, so that may come into it - it's possible that they may claim his actual sex is a private matter, which he is entitled not to reveal????
God knows.

I definitely don't think his lawyers are dumb enough to do an Oscar Wilde, though - it'll be a different angle.

I don’t know why so many women fall over themselves for men. He could have boxed in the the men’s competition. He chose knowing full well that he’s a man to box women. He’s a coward a cheat and an abuser. The IOC do have responsibilities here I agree, but he did it. He knows.

Here you go Datun. I suggest we start here then.

LouisJ.Elsas,MD' ,ArneLjungqvist,MD', MalcolmA.Ferguson-Smith,MA,FRCP, JoeLeigh Simpson,MD', MyronGenel,MD5, AlisonS.Carlson,BA, ElizabethFerris,MBBS', Albert delaChapelle,MD,
Anke A. Ehrhardt, phD

www.nature.com/articles/gim2000258.pdf?origin=ppub&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=commission_junction&utm_campaign=CONR_PF018_ECOM_GL_PHSS_ALWYS_DEEPLINK&utm_content=textlink&utm_term=PID100045542&CJEVENT=f4d4c8630a0411ed831b01a80a1c0e11

They are quite proud of it.

"On-site gender verification has since been found to be highly discriminatory, and the cause of emotional trauma and social stigmatization for many females with problems of intersex who have been screened out from competition. Despite compelling evidence for the lack of scientific merit for chromosome-based screening for gender, as well as its functional and ethical inconsistencies, the IOC persisted in its policy for 30 years."

"The coauthors of this manuscript have worked with some success to rescind this policy through educating athletes and sports governors regarding the psychological and physical nature of sexual differentiation, and the inequities of genetic sex testing."

Where are you getting that it "seems most likely they have Swyer Syndrome?" Based on what? Anything beyond what online activists are trying to spread? Swyer syndrome, from my understanding, is highly unlikely. Its sufferers often get early onset osteoporosis, for instance. You think that's likely for someone chosen to go into boxing?

It's most likely from all the evidence that both athletes in question have DSD 5-ARD. Like Caster Semenya. Which involves undeveloped genitalia at birth which are likely to be interpreted as female, and then later going through a fully male puberty, giving a male physical advantage like that of other males. This would account for originally "being assigned female at birth" and being an F on the passport , the trainer's comments about test results and testosterone (which appear to confirm Khelif is XY) AND the findings of the two independent tests and reports from female boxers who have fought Khelif that he appeared to have male upper body strength.

It is not 'most likely' that they have Swyers.

I suggest you do some further research. Maybe, start with looking at the twitter feed from Dr Emma Hilton. She has done some great threads including why it is highly unlikely to be what you have just claimed.

And look up the DSD 5ARD too.

Exactly. Not what you said but exactly. JK cares about women's rights. It's not a 'trans issue' at all. She cares about women's rights and when they intersect with other people's wants, she favours women.

I feel for IK as a person. Very difficult to be them, I'm sure. But when you revel in punching women in the face, after having been excluded from competition, using a loophole isn't OK. I used to spar with men and they all pulled their punches. Only one bloke used to hit full-force and he had some significant disabilities so the bouts were even. Hitting women full-force if you even suspect a male advantage is wrong.

I agree. It's so utterly pathetic. Well-taught that their job in life is primarily to serve and look after men and that any women who doesn't do so is evil and selfish.

@JemimaTiggywinkles can you clarify what you mean by male puberty. My understanding is they may not go through normal female puberty (menstruation, developing breast tissue) but they dont go through male puberty ie they dont grow a penis or produce sperm.

Again, really coming at this being open so if there is literature that Im wrong I will read it. Women with XX chromosomes also may not menstruate or grow breast tissue so that shouldn't be what defines a woman.

As mentioned are we happy someone male presenting with a penis is called she because of xx chromosomes.

Again this doesnt take away from the very valid discussion about how it impacts eligibility for professional sports which is an important conversation.

Thanks Helle.

I'm getting a little sick of all these men and organisations trying to blame each other for deliberately setting out to screw women over in sport.

The people who wanted men in women's sport getting the IOC to change the rules, which are now being exploited, by the very people who campaigned for them in the first place.

but, poor things, it's no one's fault!

Totally agree people had sympathy for Caster
My sympathy went out the window when I saw him on a chat show interview. Zero pretence to even act female.

Between Caster, Rachel McKinnon and various others I absolutely believe they need to go back to sex testing to be eligible to take part in female sports.
While I accept (MN education) male / female isn't quiet as simple as XX or XY, any XYs need further tests.
And those tests should be done at youth level, so no danger of people getting to late teens and international competitions before finding out they aren't what they thought they were.

Without the sex testing female sport just becomes a piece of nonsense, and in many sports very dangerous for the women who take part.

Let's not forget the other male boxer, Lin.

That boxer is rumoured to get a huge cash payout and $3000+ per month for life.

All for not having any 'personal integrity'! Fuck! Imagine how life changing that money would be to a female boxer from Taipei!

But hey. It is all good. No integrity needed.

Can you start pointing us to the references that you are using to make claims such as ' no male puberty' though? where has it been said that this adult does not have a penis?

If you start posting us what you are reading, we can tell you why we disagree.

Or maybe just do some reading of as suggested?

It's my understanding it can't be Swyer syndrome because the appearance of Khelif is clearly masculinised, and you don't get that with Swyer.

We've been told that they have high testosterone, again something you can't get with Swyer.

And the coach let slip that they've been taking testosterone suppressants. Again not something you do with Swyer.

All the reports are bringing people to the conclusion that it's 5-ARD. Where the person specifically benefits from male puberty.

Genitalia would've been ambiguous at birth, hence the F. But at puberty, it would be clear.

Colloquially it's known as penis at 12. The testosterone has no effect at birth like in regular boys, so the genitalia can look female.

But at puberty it starts to work.

Hence the very male appearance. Many men with 5-ARD have gone onto father children, as they have internal testes which will produce testosterone and, under a procedure, can also produce sperm.

They are male, chromosomally, in appearance, and with internal organs. Plus, of course, with male physical advantage over women.

But if Imane was allowed to compete, the issue needs to be targeted at the mechanisms that allowed that. Not Imane.

If an adult entered a competition in which they were encouraged to punch children in the face and knock them out in return for large sums of money, you can be assured people would call out the adult making the choice to do so as well as the institution. I'm not sure why a male punching a female is seen as any different when you take into consideration the risks.

I agree.

When I looked at that list a couple of weeks ago, it is mostly male people too who have did this campaigning. Not taking responsibility away from the female activists, but I wonder if it even would have gotten far if it was only female activists who campaigned.

I think it was telling that Bach declared no one had ever given him an alternative definition of female people than the one they were using. Either, he refused to meet any female athlete groups or feminist groups or he just lied.

Because what we do know is that he has fully accepted MALE people's definition of female people.

And did not even stop to consider the violation of female people's human rights. And isn't Bach legally trained as well?

It's not playing nice it's having a modicum of moral integrity. My sport is rowing, there are dozens of sprint regattas up and down the country every weekend. Some of these regattas attract the best clubs in the UK who want to compete against the best the sport has to offer. Other regattas are small local events that typically offer novice and inexperienced rowers a chance to compete for the first time against similarly matched opposition. There is nothing in the rules preventing me from entering these local events, but as an ex Henley qualifier and national champion runner up I would be a massive twat to rock up to these local events and clean up all the trophies by beating crews far less experienced then me. I choose to compete in events that match my skills and experience because I am not a twat.

Because @WishIMite doesn't believe that any person taking advantage of a loophole that could lead to people being significantly harmed should be held responsible for their own actions. Because apparently, if they can do it under the regulations, then by all means they should.

It really is an abject lesson in what are women for, exactly? If not to help men.

it's not even a question they pose to themselves. It's just something that they accept down to their very soul without question.

Exactly.

Cynic that I am, I believe that a lot of people are driven by self-interest. I think it's human.

Not pleasant maybe, but human.

But I also believe if you're going to be driven by self interest, then you accept the bloody consequences. And people judging you is one of them.

i'm editing my post to add that although self interest is something I believe drives many people, the whole concept of sport relies on fairness.

It's celebrating physical excellence, not mental sneakiness.

Swyer Syndrome individuals do not have testes (or ovaries) and make no or virtually no testosterone.
A SS individual has a feminised appearance because of the lack of testosterone and has a female phenotype.

None of that is true about Khelif.
Khelif's team have confirmed he has high testosterone in the male range. No organ in the body except testes could give him high testosterone levels in the male range.

The most likely DSD (if he has one) is 46XY 5-ARD.

Speaking generally, an individual with 5-ARD is male, with male phenotype, masculinised appearance, near-normal male puberty fuelled by normal male levels of testosterone from internal or sometimes descended testes.

At birth, an underdeveloped penis is apparent, with folds of tissue around it. Sometimes the testes are internal and the empty sacs can seem like labia - this is why they can be mistakenly recorded as girls. This ambiguity of appearance is due to a deficiency in the enzyme 5-alpha-reductase which means he is unable to synthesise DHT from testosterone. DHT is the hormone which is necessary to form the external genital structures in utero.

At puberty, testosterone causes further development of the penis, though the testes will remain internal if they were undescended at birth. However, this enzyme deficiency also means he cannot grow coarse facial hair (no beard or moustache) and has sparse pubic hair.

This DSD only affects males. If IK has it, it is proof he is male. He may well have been thought to be a girl up to puberty. but he has known since 2022/2023 that that is not the case. Or at least that something is sufficiently different about him that the IBA banned him from boxing against females.

Your outward appearance and lived experience is as a woman.

How often do you see Muslim women on the shoulders of a man like this ? That could be a family member but still, I am not convinced that Khelif lives like a typical Algerian woman.

Swyer syndrome is vanishingly unlikely. That would involve extremely low levels of testosterone, which is clearly not the case here. Someone with Swyer syndrome would not be in a position to compete as an elite athlete.

It fits the profile for 5ARD perfectly however

No, Swyers is NOT most likely! That’s propaganda a rumour spread online. There are people online absolutely desperate to have IK be female and Swyers suddenly appeared when it became apparent/likely that IK did have the alleged XY chromosomes. It was a change in the bot propaganda aimed at ‘explaining’ that fact - but it doesn’t, for the reasons others here have given.

Yes. However, I also think that Dumpty probably needs to go and find all this out the way we all did. By going and reading more and reading expert opinion at the very least.

Because, otherwise the understanding will be superficial.

For instance, Keating, how many posters have we seen over the past two weeks who have made the claims about it being unfeminist to be seeking to exclude these 'women' and that these were not 'trans' women so why are we being so disgusting. It is because, of course, they have never read deeply about what it is that women want protected in sports. I mean, how many times do we see the rhetoric, 'but this is different, it is complex' and most of it centres on the difficulties that Khelif may have experienced. Because they have only got a superficial understanding of the arguments.

Hence, I think Dumpty should definitely go and read further.