Thread 4: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

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Thread 3

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5135868-thread-3-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=1

Thread 2

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Thread 1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5129412-two-female-boxers-set-to-compete-at-paris-2024-were-previously-disqualified-from-womens-world-championship-for-having-xy-chromosomes?page=1

Thanks for flagging that, but what an utterly ridiculous format! The provided questions were entirely unsuited to dealing with facts rather than feelings, as was the 'reflect, don't correct' rule.

Quite a difference in how they handled it, with Sharron giving statistics throughout and the other one just claiming 'I could provide statistics' but not doing so.

Oo that's really interesting.

So it has a lot to do with power and corruption within the IOC in terms of who should be the next head of the IOC. So politics before women.

That makes the battle for who gets the job more interesting. There's a number of names beside Seb Coe.

If there is an Algerian power broker that makes it harder for Coe. It also means that a potential female African candidate may be nothing more than a puppet rather than being a champion of equality and gender parity.

Interesting.

Meanwhile, from the Taiwanese side of things:

https://www.facebook.com/fairplayforwomen/posts/pfbid022voYpBxYGE3GEbYPnwvDPgnZZAecmTusCyQ4LpRxbs6pCBDoj8xZPvx6yg6Q3wn9l

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/2024/08/16/taiwan-womens-right-campaigners-gender-row-boxer/

Isn't that a bit of an own goal by Taiwan. Most people aren't even discussing Lin because they're so focused on Khelif

From the Lin article
"President Thomas Bach of the IOC has made it clear that Ms Lin Yu-ting is born as a woman, raised as a woman, has a passport as a woman and has competed for many years as a woman"
It would be so much quicker to say she's female but they never do.

Exactly, there is an entire class of people who never need make such declarations...

Guess someone figured they needed to get in on the grifting action a bit more and keep up with IK.

It's almost as if they're part of the effort to change the definition of "woman."

President Thomas Bach of the IOC has made it clear that Ms Lin Yu-ting is born as a woman, raised as a woman, has a passport as a woman and has competed for many years as a woman"

‘president thomas bach of the ioc has made it clear that ms lin yu-ting is born an adult female human, raised as an adult female human…’

gosh they grow so fast

As we have seen on other threads, it is all revolving around ‘women’s’ sport. ie. Making it inclusive based on the language used.

It is just one of the reasons I now use ‘female sport’. Because when faced with the incessant pushing, let’s fucking cut to the chase and set the boundaries around the ‘sex’ category.

When you see it, the doubling down on ‘woman’ in their defence, you know that they know. Arses.

As someone pointed out on Twitter the IOC are relying on the Taiwanese authorities who issued the female passport so the validation is entirely circular.

Yes! But why are we all focusing so much on one of them when they were both XY in a female category. I don't understand why all the news and commentary seems to downplay the Taiwanese boxer slightly in this compared to the Algerian.

Interesting development about Lin Yu-ting, the Taiwanese govt. and their approach to Fair Play for Women.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5143847-taiwan-tries-to-silence-fair-play-for-women?

The Algerian fought first, so got more attention. And there's been more info coming out of the Algerian training camps etc, so more to talk about.

And from the 'inclusion' side of the argument, the story of a poor underdog from oppressive rural Algeria is a more useful narrative that Taiwan's top ranking medical system and less rigid attitudes to gender roles and nonconformity. 'She's got a female passport' is a less convincing argument if your country allows passports to be changed.

IK’s dad was in the newspapers showing off childhood pictures and coaches/training staff have been giving interviews whereas YTL, team and family seem to have deliberately kept a low profile (until now anyway)?

I expect language has something to do with it too - IK has been working and training in Europe and more people are able to translate between various European languages and English than are able to do the same between Mandarin or either of the two Taiwanese languages.

Being on Team Taiwan at the Olympics must be pretty weird/stressful without the sex test debacle, I wouldn’t be surprised if Taiwanese athletes are generally advised to stay low key everywhere except when actively competing and to delay press interviews until everyone’s back home.

I expect the profile/popularity of the weight classes and the profiles/track records of the boxers in each class feeds into volume of attention generally? Most of the really famous household name boxers of the last 60 years have been Heavyweights/Super Heavyweight and LK is a couple of weight classes higher than YTL (the women’s weight classes are a bit different to the men’s tho).

(and internet copy&’paste debaters can’t use the Russia conspiracy argument to defend YTL because YLT hadn’t fought a Russian as recently as IK 😬)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Imane_Khelif&oldid=1240712598

The state of this Wikipedia page.. whoever's working on this, their bias is showing all through the article.

@NoBinturongsHereMate @ChaChaChooey those points all make sense thank you!