I have never felt a punch like this’ – Carini

[Omlettes]

Words fail I'm so angry, but by god she is brave.
Personally I feel sick and 'triggered' it reminds me of the first time an ex punched me on the thigh, I couldnt get over how much it hurt or the enormous bruise from knee to hip. I know there is a general thread on this but its so important it deserves multiple threads. I hope Carinis decision to stop the fight so very publicly makes a difference.
Meanwhile Khelif crows “I am here for gold,” “I will fight anybody, I will fight them all.”
Not the REMOTEST hint of sportsmanlike conduct.
I vote we write to VIiner en masse and lay some responsibility at her feet.
Actually EVERY editor, The Indy NYT WAPO etc
I am incandescent

The problem is that he's a man.

*Just to be clear, this isn't alwys the case.

Google Swyer syndrome. Functioning vagina, womb etc but XY*

Womb but no ovaries and never goes through puberty, male or female. So what are the chances that a person with Swyer is an elite ahtlete? Small to none, I would say. So shall we discount them for sports and go back to xx =women and xy= mens or open?

@TooTiredOfThisShit they were banned by the IBA for having a Y chromosome, nothing to do with T levels. The IBA has been the regulatory body for amateur boxing for years, however last year they had a falling out with the IOC over dodgy Russian money and the IOC disbarred them from being the regulatory body for Olympic boxing. The IOC took boxing ‘in-house’ and promptly never got round to writing a trans or DSD policy. So here we are.

it’s important to realise that for most sports the IOC doesn’t set the rules, that’s down to the various governing bodies. This is an anomaly where the governing body got stripped of its responsibilities and the IOC promptly fucked up.

It is happening a lot in the US . College level sports being played by men identifying as women or trans . When other competitors object or refuse they are subjected to abuse and death threats .

The International Boxing Association disqualified the two MEN so why has the Olympic Committee accepted them ? And just wondering if these two ever competed with other men ? Wonder what prompted their interest in the sport??? Comparable to me competing in tennis or swimming with an adolescent. Hiw are earth do we stop this madness ? The arena should have been swamped with protesting supporters of Carsini .

@Soonenough nothing to do with trans, these are 46,XY individuals with DSDs. See my previous post for an explanation of how we they are being allowed to compete.

Thats good to hear.
And I hope you read Colin Wrights article and you can now finally put to bed this whole offensive 'intersex' destraction.
Its been six years!

Because the IBA was abolished by the IOC.

The IBA has not been abolished. It is still the world governing body for amateur boxing. It’s just not currently recognise as such by the IOC.

It's not acceptable as the governing body by the IOC.

Take a look at the longer running thread on this issue...there are several sources of information posted there.

If sex was just in the mind or feelings, and not in the biological, chromosomal body...why would some people be so keen to block the natural puberty of children? What would be the purpose, other than to block natural and inevitatble sexual development?

Literally on the BBC as we speak. The IBA is suspended by the IOC.

As I posted on another thread.

Here's the thing. If they continue to allow competitors who have failed a gender test to compete at women's boxing at the Olympics what is the inevitable outcome from that?

Some nations will actively seek out competitors who have this advantage, which will edge out women, women will give up the sport out of fears for their safety and/or we will end up with an appalling outcome at the expense of the health and safety of a woman.

So however we deal with this, none of those outcomes are remotely desirable.

It is a medical condition which causes lifelong issues to some degree. We should not create stigma about it but it should be recognised as such and then competitors with that issue compete, in the spirit of fairness, with others with similar issues.

There isn't a way to avoid this. The IOC could have avoided this situation if they had just kept the previous bodies ruling instead of completely abolishing the government body and introducing their own crazy ruling on this.

I hope the other women in the same category refuse to compete. Their sport is at stake.

@RedToothBrush ,Don't understand this surely seperate entities ? And wouldn't the previous scientific findings available been taken into consideration? To answer my own question obviously not as this travesty was allowed to take place.

No. They do not have vaginas. They have short blind channels resulting from a chemical developmental condition. It's in the vicinity of a woman's vagina anatomically speaking, but it isn't a birth channel, so it's not a vagina. It's a congenital defect. Calling it a vagina is unhelpful because it's no more a vagina than my ear is a vagina. It's an orifice. Don't know if it has a unique name or if it gets called a "vagina" just like I call my Henry vacuum cleaner a "Hoover".

The BBC actually reported the issues in the middle of the Olympics coverage.

Even the fact that they were only eligible as they had female on their passport.

There was a problem with the IBA due to corruption and Russia apparently. So the IOC suspended them as the governing body for olympic boxing and took over making the rules instead.

Balding just cut over to a very short piece about what they described as “the controversy” over these two being allowed to compete.

As usual, the BBC skirted as far around the underlying issue as they possibly could. They’ve got Sharron Davies poolside - they could have asked her to explain it properly

“They are women in their passports”

Says an IOC official. That’s not quite the point is it , Semanya is a woman in his passport.

Were they really hoping that no one would notice, that no one would say anything. It is not the seventies when no one said anything about doping even though it was clearly happening.

Women won’t wheesht, and I don’t think sports fans will either.

This is admirably succinct, LaeralSilverhand, I've been explaining the IBA v. IOC situation on another thread with a lot less clarity!

The IBA were dodgy and corrupt - arguably still are - and that's why it's the waffly 'be kind if there's an F on their passport' IOC eligibility rules now apply to Khelif and Lin. So the IBA fuck-up is what precipitated the IOC fuck-up.

I wouldn't say the IOC 'never got round to writing a trans or DSD policy', I think they just adopted a self-ID policy in line with the most extreme trans rights position - if a man says he's a woman, he is a woman, full stop, no debate.

We see the damaging effects of this in everyday life, e.g. erosion of women only spaces, which is bad enough; but today we saw the actual damaging effects of it on a woman's body.

I think Judy Murray's hanging around somewhere too - maybe she and Sharron could spell it out together.

This.

The IOC completely ditched tests and instead just looked at passports.

How fucked up is that?

If you have a developmental disorder you may well have testosterone levels at a far higher level than any woman can have. A woman taking drugs to boost testosterone could theoretically be banned. But as long as you have the right passport it's all apparently 'fair'.

This in theory could allow someone with no medical condition but has acquired a female passport through legal channels to compete, if they aren't going to confirm sex / testosterone within acceptable levels by other means.

The IOC have absolutely fucked up on this. It's totally the wrong sport to be doing this in.

They've put identity ahead of safety and fairness.

You claimed it had been abolished. I corrected you and have offered an explanation as to the situation. As you were.

Oh stop being difficult and arsey.

I did correct.