I have never felt a punch like this’ – Carini

[Omlettes]

Words fail I'm so angry, but by god she is brave.
Personally I feel sick and 'triggered' it reminds me of the first time an ex punched me on the thigh, I couldnt get over how much it hurt or the enormous bruise from knee to hip. I know there is a general thread on this but its so important it deserves multiple threads. I hope Carinis decision to stop the fight so very publicly makes a difference.
Meanwhile Khelif crows “I am here for gold,” “I will fight anybody, I will fight them all.”
Not the REMOTEST hint of sportsmanlike conduct.
I vote we write to VIiner en masse and lay some responsibility at her feet.
Actually EVERY editor, The Indy NYT WAPO etc
I am incandescent

So what does that mean for the Olympics? Does that mean the 2 athletes will be removed from the Olymics and all future sporting events?

Was just thinking, I've NEVER seen so many threads across MN about this issue. Is it because it touches on the issue of male violence against women? It's not swimming or running, it's something that many ordinary women have experience of, and something that all of us live in fear of. And to see it legitimized on an Olympic stage, which is all about fairness, seems to have struck a chord in a way that no issue has before. I'm so heartened to see so many women speak out about this, but, my God, is this what it takes for women to really get what we've been warning about for years??

The (Italian?) boxer pulled out after 40 odd seconds because she feared for her life. Other people who’ve been hit by this athlete say it’s like no punch they’ve ever received from a female competitor.

I could have the sex marker changed in my passport with minimal paperwork. Wouldn’t make me the opposite sex. Wouldn’t auto-magically reset my body.

It means the IOC will probably pretend there isn't a problem for the rest of the games then quietly change the rules for next time and never admit how much they have fucked up.

If we are lucky.

If we are not lucky then women will be edged out of women's boxing as nations look to find more of intersex competitors which women can't compete with.

I don't understand all this testosterone level testing and measuring business.

Can't a simple blood test to determine chromosomes settle all these shenanigans?

I think it has been a dripping tap. No debate is over, people are less scared about talking about this in the real world.

But yes, a man being allowed to punch a women on the world stage does make people wake up.

The problem is that having X chromosomes means you go through male puberty, even if you have ambiguous external genitalia that might be confused This means that you have built in advantages of muscle strength, bone length ( think how this might make a difference in boxing!) heart and lung size.

Well done to that Italian boxer for having the courage to speak out and protect herself and other female boxers.

Yes. And the tests say they are male

@sadabouti if you want to get technical then if it developed from the Müllerian duct of the embryo then it’s a vagina. From my understanding this happens in 46,XY individuals with CAIS. I don’t think that is relevant to the current controversy and I’m not sure speculating on genitalia is helpful.

Doesn't have to be a blood test, a simple, painless mouth swab will do.

But the IOC stopped doing sex tests in 1999.

A simple test. Not necessarily a blood test.

But apparently this is too distressing for men.

Never mind how it's actively dangerous for women not to do this.

The 'distressing' part is that it creates a clarity that in turn creates inconvenient boundaries for men.

Fuck Off

Precisely the point of Self ID to game the system so that fools and knaves can pretend not to notice.

Disagree. The duct you speak of is present in all embryos (male or female by chromosomes). That something may develop from it in a male suffering from Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome doesn't make it a vagina. Only women have vaginas and woman are XX not XY. It's no more a vagina than a clitoris is a penis, though both develop from the ambisexual genital tubercle don't they. So do not try to confuse the issues by claiming technical knowledge that you then misrepresent.

I have never felt a punch like this

That is because she was hit by a trained male boxer.
A man has been allowed onto the women's team, and is fighting women.

No and his behaviour leaves us in no doubt of his sense of privelidge.
Here he is groping her breast, which apparently has been conveniently missed by the press.

x.com/nicholelizaq/status/1819035576559120743?s=19&t=nSHvhDH9k014NU12PFc5Zw

I think it is widely accepted that DSDs are also binary, if you have an Y chromosome you are male.

Exactly!

you don’t need a GRC to change your passport from male to female

www.gov.uk/government/publications/gender-recognition/gender-recognition-accessible

This ongoing endless 'discussion' wether people with DSDs are male or female because of them is SO offensive and an obvious distraction.
XX female
XY male

So how many tests do these two men need? They have already been tested , and they are biological men. They aren’t going to magically change into women just because the boxing governing body that tested them isn’t recognised by the IOC.

Bloody hell. I completely missed that. UTTERLY inappropriate, a woman would never do that to another woman.

A man might well thoughtlessly do that to another man. Suggests really that he's perhaps not that regularly matched against women.

Years ago my son got in with a "bad crowd" at school and was in all sorts of bother. He took up boxing and I honestly think it saved his life. He is now a well composed young man with excellent self control. Boxing is not all bad and I wish people would see that but today's display has done nothing for the sport. For the record I don't enjoy watching any of his fights but he gets a buzz from being in the ring and generally speaking the boxing community are hugely supportive. Today should have never happened

Exactly. What is particularly offensive is that for some reason bodies like the IOC and some individual sports bodies are completely happy supporting the known cheats, both cheating athletes and their cheating country officials who are gaming this issue.

I’ve never been hit by a man but I find it triggering and upsetting to watch this fight. I can watch women’s boxing no problem. But a man hitting a women in the name of sport I just can’t watch.