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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Farage says Andrew Tate is an important voice for men

203 replies

jomartin281271 · 25/06/2024 00:19

How can so many people still be in the thrall of Farage and Reform UK when harldy a day goes by without another horrifying story about Farage emerges. Now he's telling us that Andrew Tate is an important voice for men. Tate is a vile representation of the human race. who glorifies hitting and choking women. Why would any woman vote for Reform UK?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/20/nigel-farage-andrew-tate-important-voice-men-podcast-interview

Farage said Andrew Tate was ‘important voice’ for men in podcast interview

Reform UK leader has also argued against diversity quotas and said people on benefits were ‘too stupid’ to work in appearances over past year

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/20/nigel-farage-andrew-tate-important-voice-men-podcast-interview

OP posts:
XChrome · 25/06/2024 21:16

Realduchymarmalade · 25/06/2024 09:10

Surprised the dislike for Jordan Peterson on here. What have I missed? Everything I’ve come across from him, admittedly limited to borrowing his books from the library and stumbling across the odd Internet article/video, made me feel he talks good sense.

His books are just pabulum. What he's said in interviews and on SM is more enlightening as to his character. For example, that the solution to incel violence was that young men should be gifted a sex slave by the state. Just Google something like "stupid shit Jordan Peterson has said" to get the quotes.

There was even a JP AI for awhile that generated hilarious word salad in his style. You could not tell it from the real thing. Not sure if it's still available.
There is a guessing game where you write some drivel and quote Jordan Peterson and ask people to guess which is which.
I used to have fun back when X was Twitter, watching him become unhinged. He would rage when he got a bad review, even threatened to strike a reviewer once. However, since he got fired due to drug addiction and general incompetence, he's not that popular anymore, so the uproar has died down.

LadyMuckRake · 25/06/2024 21:18

gifted a sex slave by the state!? good grief. And what was in that for the sex slave? geez.

XChrome · 25/06/2024 21:19

cupcaske123 · 25/06/2024 16:39

Who Farage? What did he mean then?

That same troll has had three different names in this thread now. You can spot it by the childish remarks and barely literate writing style. Boring.

TempestTost · 25/06/2024 21:22

XChrome · 25/06/2024 21:16

His books are just pabulum. What he's said in interviews and on SM is more enlightening as to his character. For example, that the solution to incel violence was that young men should be gifted a sex slave by the state. Just Google something like "stupid shit Jordan Peterson has said" to get the quotes.

There was even a JP AI for awhile that generated hilarious word salad in his style. You could not tell it from the real thing. Not sure if it's still available.
There is a guessing game where you write some drivel and quote Jordan Peterson and ask people to guess which is which.
I used to have fun back when X was Twitter, watching him become unhinged. He would rage when he got a bad review, even threatened to strike a reviewer once. However, since he got fired due to drug addiction and general incompetence, he's not that popular anymore, so the uproar has died down.

Peterson said nothing like that.

This is the kind of thing the Guardian article said, and it's completely untrue.

This is why I tend to be very careful of assuming the Guardian are being honest in their presentation of anyone's position, and in fact I tend to think they are likely dishonest where it suits them.

TempestTost · 25/06/2024 21:33

Crikeyalmighty · 25/06/2024 19:29

@TempestTost but I disagree- the only thing I can see that would appeal to w/c communities is the 'immigration angle' - and on that I think he is all hot air- however that I think is the main factor with many in poorer areas - he's pushed it so much that they think he's the saviour of it - he isn't - it's complicated- to be frank being in the EU again would solve that aspect to some extent- it wasn't an issue to this degree before- they were stopped in France,

I can't see remotely how they think paying for healthcare is going to benefit most w/c people - unless we are talking about those on benefits who might 'presume' they will get it covered off- it's a big presumption. Bigger personal allowances (uncosted)- then pointless if paying for healthcare and unless he has a certain level of immigration will struggle to have enough staffing - and I would want way better care if you have to pay insurance as well as NIC as will most people-.

I've got a fair few friends who I would say would call themselves working class-as I said before though they aren't that hard up and Farage doesn't resonate with them one bit- they think he's a total knobhead -

It's not so much poor working class people I think supporting him and I think it's disingenuous to think it is or that's the main community he resonates with- my own opinion and reading all the posts on X is it's a lot of self employed tradesmen who have been making hay out of fleecing people post Brexit due to less competition-and don't worry about tearing up employment regs, it's a certain kind of rose tinted glasses pensioner , it's well off types who bet on crashing the pound and hate any foreigners - it's people who are obsessed with low tax (ironically though they seem disinterested in services) exactly the same as it was with Brexit- although less of them

Most people in every group think he's a knobhead though. You aren't likely to find a majority of any group. I would tend to see the same types as you (minus the dishonest bit), btw, but tradesmen are w/c.

As far as specific policies, the devil is really in the details in a lot of cases. I'm seeing a lot of people now looking very carefully at European models of healthcare for example,

But again, I think you need to look at Farage as a kind of protest movement or vote.

They are fed up with the Tories because they aren't very inspiring, have had some major screw ups, and probably most importantly, have simply been in government too long. Also - they have done nothing useful with immigration, mainly due to economic constraints. They clearly need some kind of party renewal.

They won't vote for Labour, they have no good economic policies that differentiate them from the Tories anyway and their social policies are batshit. They also will not get a handle on immigration and moralize it in a disturbing way. But most importantly, they are clearly the party of the professional elite, govern in their interests, and despise everyone else. No one will vote for someone they feel despises them.

The Lib Dems and the Greens basically have the same issues as Labour.

Farage taps into this gap, the discontent, very effectively, and the important thing is, NO ONE else is offering anything on the same issues. So at worst, a vote for him is a big Screw You to the others, and there is always the hope if he elects any MPs it could throw some new element into political discourse.

cupcaske123 · 25/06/2024 22:14

XChrome · 25/06/2024 21:19

That same troll has had three different names in this thread now. You can spot it by the childish remarks and barely literate writing style. Boring.

That explains it.

BeachParty · 26/06/2024 00:06

XChrome · 25/06/2024 21:19

That same troll has had three different names in this thread now. You can spot it by the childish remarks and barely literate writing style. Boring.

To be fair, it's not possible to name change on a thread if that's what you're getting at.
I'm a regular MN poster and it's recently changed so that if you've name changed and go back to a thread to comment on that had your old one, it automatically changes your username back to the old one for that particular comment.
Bit harsh to troll hunt and insinuate about people just because you don't agree with their view.
I'm firmly in the Nigel is a twunt camp

LightDrizzle · 26/06/2024 00:10

Just when you thought he couldn’t possibly render himself any more repulsive …

biscuitandcake · 26/06/2024 00:44

BeachParty · 26/06/2024 00:06

To be fair, it's not possible to name change on a thread if that's what you're getting at.
I'm a regular MN poster and it's recently changed so that if you've name changed and go back to a thread to comment on that had your old one, it automatically changes your username back to the old one for that particular comment.
Bit harsh to troll hunt and insinuate about people just because you don't agree with their view.
I'm firmly in the Nigel is a twunt camp

You can it its difficult I've done it by a accident because Im an idiot but should usually take a certain amount of effort

XChrome · 26/06/2024 01:22

BeachParty · 26/06/2024 00:06

To be fair, it's not possible to name change on a thread if that's what you're getting at.
I'm a regular MN poster and it's recently changed so that if you've name changed and go back to a thread to comment on that had your old one, it automatically changes your username back to the old one for that particular comment.
Bit harsh to troll hunt and insinuate about people just because you don't agree with their view.
I'm firmly in the Nigel is a twunt camp

You can't have multiple accounts? Trolls usually do.

That is not why I think it is a troll. Lots of people disagree with me. I almost never suspect them of being trolls.

tackytriceratops · 26/06/2024 07:31

Testing the name change thing...

tackytriceratops · 26/06/2024 07:32

You can clearly used one of your old names. You can't make up a different name

RiverF · 26/06/2024 07:39

Oh dear God. This has actually made me cry. Genuinely, my body did this weird deflated thing and the tears came. I was there for women's lib in the 70s and I worked through the sexism of the 80s, but things seem to have got worse for women over my lifetime.

ItsStillMeJust · 26/06/2024 11:34

You can nc on a thread?l You need to manually change the username in the box.

IncompleteSenten · 26/06/2024 11:34

See. That was me.

sawdustformypony · 26/06/2024 11:57

@XChrome For example, that the solution to incel violence was that young men should be gifted a sex slave by the state. Just Google something like "stupid shit Jordan Peterson has said" to get the quotes

I have absolutely no problem believing that JP said exactly those words. Absolutely none at all. But as soooo very often happens, the devil is in the detail. What I would like to know is what happens if the Incel gentleman then gets himself a girlfriend outside of the master/slave relationship - does he then have to return the gift back to the state. What about when the girlfriend and sex slave refuse to get on with each other - what then ? Did JP expand on what would happen then - bet he bloody didn't (...asking for a friend btw)

XChrome · 26/06/2024 12:07

sawdustformypony · 26/06/2024 11:57

@XChrome For example, that the solution to incel violence was that young men should be gifted a sex slave by the state. Just Google something like "stupid shit Jordan Peterson has said" to get the quotes

I have absolutely no problem believing that JP said exactly those words. Absolutely none at all. But as soooo very often happens, the devil is in the detail. What I would like to know is what happens if the Incel gentleman then gets himself a girlfriend outside of the master/slave relationship - does he then have to return the gift back to the state. What about when the girlfriend and sex slave refuse to get on with each other - what then ? Did JP expand on what would happen then - bet he bloody didn't (...asking for a friend btw)

He actually phrased it differently, but the meaning was clear. He did not expand on it and later denied saying it. I saw him get incandescent with rage in both an interview and a debate when it was brought up. It's quite possible he does not remember, considering he was off his head on benzos for years.

sawdustformypony · 26/06/2024 12:39

@XChrome He actually phrased it differently, but the meaning was clear. He did not expand on it and later denied saying it. I saw him get incandescent with rage in both an interview and a debate when it was brought up. It's quite possible he does not remember, considering he was off his head on benzos for years

So, no free sex slaves from the state then ? fuck. I've so lost interest in this thread. @XChrome Good luck with your own version of reality. Don't accept anybody telling you its a load of old bobbins. It's your own reality and that's what's important.

XChrome · 26/06/2024 12:46

sawdustformypony · 26/06/2024 12:39

@XChrome He actually phrased it differently, but the meaning was clear. He did not expand on it and later denied saying it. I saw him get incandescent with rage in both an interview and a debate when it was brought up. It's quite possible he does not remember, considering he was off his head on benzos for years

So, no free sex slaves from the state then ? fuck. I've so lost interest in this thread. @XChrome Good luck with your own version of reality. Don't accept anybody telling you its a load of old bobbins. It's your own reality and that's what's important.

If you've really lost interest, you leave the thread. You don't stick around and make a fool of yourself.

Crikeyalmighty · 26/06/2024 13:26

@TempestTost let's face it- many w/c people (and plenty of other classes too) want the moon on a stick regardless of where the money is coming from- high wages, low taxes, pensions protected, benefits as little as possible (until of course they need them) and great high quality services.They want the impossible unless they are prepared to pay in for the privilege- we lived in Copenhagen for 20 months- totally different way of looking at things- all the above applied but tax at 46% - however no council tax, low cost childcare, no NI as such - better utilities, more social housing (i
Of good quality) expectation was that everyone worked- and mainly full time -- kids or not.

I see many on here where they don't have very young kids and yet both or one are working not many hours and using top ups of UC - to be honest I don't blame people if they are no better off- but that's our system and def not would be the norm in Denmark- consequently they have far more input into the tax system and less take out.

I'm not sure that many who go for the Farage kind of ethos would be keen on this at all - as I say I think many want the moon on a stick but at minimal cost to themselves and are more than happy to play the state- I think Farage would be suprisingly harsh on that and yet keeps it very quiet so as not to alienate some of his fan base- many are much older though so not really pertinent to them- but will be to their kids and grandchildren

TempestTost · 26/06/2024 18:16

sawdustformypony · 26/06/2024 11:57

@XChrome For example, that the solution to incel violence was that young men should be gifted a sex slave by the state. Just Google something like "stupid shit Jordan Peterson has said" to get the quotes

I have absolutely no problem believing that JP said exactly those words. Absolutely none at all. But as soooo very often happens, the devil is in the detail. What I would like to know is what happens if the Incel gentleman then gets himself a girlfriend outside of the master/slave relationship - does he then have to return the gift back to the state. What about when the girlfriend and sex slave refuse to get on with each other - what then ? Did JP expand on what would happen then - bet he bloody didn't (...asking for a friend btw)

He didn't say that at all.

What he said is that frustrated young males are a social problem, and this is one of the reasons for the rise of enforced monogamy.

Which some people thought meant, essentially, what XChrome has said, but in fact is an established term in anthropology which just means that a society only accepts marriages between two people, not polygamy, or harems, or anything like that.

The idea he was describing - which is not controversial in sociology and anthropology - is that in societies where a few powerful men consolidate access to large numbers of women, it leaves many "normal" men unable to marry or have a family life. This is destabilizing for that society. Family life is one of the most effective things at tying men into society and making them productive. (Societies where there are a lot of single men with no hope need to find other ways to dispose of them.) So societies with socially enforced monogamy tend to be more successful.

Unfortunately quite a lot of idiots wrote articles without bothering to do normal journalistic research, but that really reflects on them, not Peterson.

TempestTost · 26/06/2024 18:22

Crikeyalmighty · 26/06/2024 13:26

@TempestTost let's face it- many w/c people (and plenty of other classes too) want the moon on a stick regardless of where the money is coming from- high wages, low taxes, pensions protected, benefits as little as possible (until of course they need them) and great high quality services.They want the impossible unless they are prepared to pay in for the privilege- we lived in Copenhagen for 20 months- totally different way of looking at things- all the above applied but tax at 46% - however no council tax, low cost childcare, no NI as such - better utilities, more social housing (i
Of good quality) expectation was that everyone worked- and mainly full time -- kids or not.

I see many on here where they don't have very young kids and yet both or one are working not many hours and using top ups of UC - to be honest I don't blame people if they are no better off- but that's our system and def not would be the norm in Denmark- consequently they have far more input into the tax system and less take out.

I'm not sure that many who go for the Farage kind of ethos would be keen on this at all - as I say I think many want the moon on a stick but at minimal cost to themselves and are more than happy to play the state- I think Farage would be suprisingly harsh on that and yet keeps it very quiet so as not to alienate some of his fan base- many are much older though so not really pertinent to them- but will be to their kids and grandchildren

Yes, it's interesting about the Nordic countries. They have, until recently at least, often been elevated as an example we should follow in terms of their benefits and such.

At the same time, there is such strong cultural pressure to pull your weight, and really there has to be. And it's also not unconnected to the reasons why some of those countries have really struggled with accepting newcomers. You need very strong social norms and shared values, and also very strong identification with others in society, a sense that everyone is pulling their weight.

The cultural and even regional diversity in the UK works against that kind of system I think. And - I also think there is a very strong independent streak that is different.

I am sure part of Farage's appeal is what he suggests he can offer. But it's also that the others seem to fail to offer much, including a vision.

swimlyn · 21/02/2025 14:49

“Evil pieces of shit do tend to like other evil pieces of shit.”

Golly. Well said @XChrome. This phrase should go on mugs and wall plaques etc!

SinnerBoy · 21/02/2025 15:48

In related news, Trump has tried to pressure Romania into dropping the charges against Tate, or at least, to remove judicial surveillance, which would probably allow him to escape.

The Romanians have said no, mind your own.

OneLilacCrow · 28/02/2025 16:04

If it comes from the Guardian you can bet your life that they’ve twisted Farage’s words.